I can complicate things for you even more. The porn I like isn't photographic in nature. It's all either drawn artwork, or written word. There's actually quite the successful industry of artists - a basic non-pornographic character pic will run you maybe five dollars, while a multi-character orgy with difficult poses and extensive detailing can be over a hundred. Not to look at art - that's usually free - but to have something custom-drawn to your specifications.

Downloading movies for free doesn't take away from the fact that people ARE downloading movies with their money. Not the Lord's work at all. I think looking at certain movies sends a signal to porn companies on what people want to see. So you are basically doing research for them.

1. Because you're putting something in your mind that probably shouldn't be there
2. ?
3. Definitely
4. Depends on who you ask. Go to God for that answer.

@SR That's another niche, but it can be addressed by #1, 2 and 4 perhaps... Depictions of non-marital relations in an open fashion arousing desire other than with one's spouse... we've had a few here who were REALLY upset about being hooked on some rough sex cartoon porn, hentai, etc. and its understandable, because feeling like you're out of control and getting attracted to rape or underage girls is frightening, and should be.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
My thoughts for now:
Porn, sexual arousal, actually occurs in the brain of course, the real sex organ... and the individual's ability to manage the way it affects their mind is the key to avoiding the addiction traps. What I've seen happen is individuals have extreme guilt and shame over their private sexual habits which causes them to cocoon themselves in secrecy-- creating huge emotional traumas of continued shame, loneliness, anger, frustration, self-hatred, fear of being found out-- all of these negative emotions create a negative self-image. Of course, what happens when sexual desire returns, which it will, is, if they haven't learned to manage their sexual life rather than trying to deny it, the addict starts wanting what they're "not allowed to have" because that's how they medicate their bad self-image. ("I drink too much so I can forget--- that I drink too much") They start wanting their taboo. Being taboo makes it that much more attractive and tempting. They love how they feel when they're "in the zone", then, they hate that they love it, that they can't control this behavior, etc. They hate how they feel afterwards about themselves. They hate that they have no resistance to the temptation once it occurs.

If you've studied the brain chemistry angle, a porn addict has trained the primitive part of the brain, which includes the basic sex drive, to have an appetite for things that the rational mind opposes or comes to oppose. When I first ran across that concept, it explained a lot to me. (Also see Maslow's heirarchy) Porn addiction makes no sense. I used to try to analyze it, figure out why... how is it that I find myself interested in x,y,z-- yet porn is rather boring... its much more fun to do than watch, etc. Until I heard about the primitive aspect of our brains-- which is trained to reproduce the species and seek out whatever it has learned in order to achieve that task (even if it is only being duped into masturbation)-- did I start to understand why this "problem" can't be treated by reason, or argument, preachng against it or self-discipline either. It occurs below the conscious or logical mind. Trying to discipline the primitive brain from seeking its learned sexual fulfillment is perceived by it as a threat to the survival of the body itself, so it puts up a strong resistance. This is why I have little confidence in filters, accountability, peer group (shaming "encourgagement") etc.... at least for me, these things just made me want the forbidden thing more, not less. Learning to have a balanced biblical view on sex, arousal, masturbation etc. accepting that which is natural and fundamental to human instincts, then learning to manage those instincts by changing the appetite proved successful for me, dramatically so.

It is an intriguing, complex addiction, a perfect addiction and can be quite frustrating. Hope I didn't talk to much and I hope others will pipe in if they feel like it.

You know what's truly goofy???

You get in trouble for illegally downloading music and regular movies, but downloading pirated porn movies doesn't get you in trouble.

While I was at the circle bar at the HARD ROCK CASINO & HOTEL after the 2012 AVN AWARDS I partied with Eric Swiss and a young fellow Nate Glass whom is the owner of TAKEDOWN PIRACY specializing in eliminating porn piracy.

There are several regular freebie porn hubs online that feature scenes...as well as various torrent websites.

Interesting paradox, SDC... it sounds like the case of the guy calling the cops 'cause someone stole his dope... somehow they don't get sympathy.

Cops always steal dope

Uh I mean I can't say that with certainty

I never really understood music sharing as theft. Selling without paying the makers I can see as enriching yourself at their expense. The entire music industry is founded and perpetuated by people listening for free to music. When enough people hear and like a band they come to the performances and the band can make millions from preforming. If noone hears of them noone comes to the show or buys the cd. I guess you may make the case that listening to music on the radio and turning off the adds is stealing but sharing a good song only increases the audience and potential of an artist. Not heard for free means not heard. People don't buy music until they hear it and it resonates with them. If they really find a way to crack down on free music the industry would evaporate because who buys a band or song they never heard?

In the same way sharing porn promotes and expands the marketability of the porn producers. I understand you ask a little tongue in cheek about porn piracy being God's work but the truth is expanding influence is the key to keeping the money flowing. Fighting sharing is only a fakeout not a real issue. I think if an artist wants all free music listening removed we should honor that, take them off of mp3, youtube and radio and then they can go get an hourly job because noone will even know they exist.

I am all for buying the products produced by the makers you like and keeping them in business. That is how they have the resources to produce the next good project. Listen enjoy and only buy the ones you love then the best will thrive.

Thanks for your input. I suppose there are statistics and studies on this that document whether the ultimate rate of return on intellectual property has grown rather than diminished in the age of free sharing of perfect copies of original art. It may well be that the free distribution of say one album or one song actually serves as an advertising expense, gaining the artist far more exposure than they would have had, and encouraging concert attendance, band paraphernalia, as well as sales of future albums just by anticipation.

I guess I can't imagine buying an album if I could have it for free and I didn't think it was stealing. But, like I said, I'm not into music or piracy anyway, so its not an issue for me. Another thought I had on this is that the musicians should try to find a way to market to those who are "ripping them off"-- sell them the labels to put on their stolen CD's or something... there's gotta be an angle for them.
☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺ ☻ ☺

********************************************************************************
Revisiting the Original Post

Any answers or comments on the following question:
********************************************************************************

"Why is porn considered sinful?

1. Because the actors are sinning sexually? (what about written erotica?) What if
they are married or in a steady relationship?

2. Because the actors shouldn't be seen nude in public? -- it's lasciviousness.

3. Because the females are being abused and are pretending to like it?

4. Because its wrong to be sexually aroused other than by one's spouse?

********************************************************************************
Which answers are correct or none of the above?

Personally, I think people tend to dwell on peripheral non-issues such as supposed trafficking, prostitution, drugs, abuse, etc. which are only involved in a limited number of situations and don't deal with the subject matter itself. I think if a person wants to deal with an adversary, its best to know your "enemy". Some say its just instinctive... they "know" its wrong-- maybe they're just embarrassed at first, or shocked, not actually discerning "evil", per se. Your thoughts?

Recommended Reading: http://goodmenproject.com/health/how-porn-can-ruin-your-sex-life-and-your-marriage/ Evolutionary scientists talk about how porn can screw up a person's sex life.

8 Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy--meditate on these things.
Phil 4:8 (NKJV)

Is it just me or is there an inherent irony in trying to discuss the relative rightness or wrongness of porn on a porn addiction recovery site. I don't think as deep as a lot of people but on the surface it appears that sexual fantasies don't help us become more giving or productive or help us develop strong lasting relationships in the real world. I know its more of a feeling and a viewpoint than a great argument but don't most of us struggling with the issues here just know porn is not a portal to a life of grace and love.

As to why is it bad I have to say it takes but never gives. When using porn we remap our brains into patterns that will never help us become what we know we should be.

I might be more concerned if I intended to ever enter into a real relationship. I'm quite happy with my drama-free life.

@7seeker It could be considered ironic, but I think that there are such discussions. It would usually take the form of... Yes, its natural to enjoy sexual beauty, for example in the great paintings and sculptures of the world, but there's a difference between art and obscenity. OR they'll talk about how it portrays the abuse of the image of God or maybe glorifies non-procreative sex and wasting the seed.

You seem to be saying that its so obvious, it shouldn't have to be discussed, esp. by those who are trying to end the habit. Yet, my point is to "know your enemy". If it's so obviously wrong, why would a Christian want to do it? They usually aren't tempted to abuse drugs or be alcoholics or shoplifters... so why should so many be tempted to do this? Why do Christian men like porn or look at it, if they actually hate it? Some guys will admit that when they're INTO it, they really enjoy it, maybe love it. Isn't it that pleasure they have in it that keeps them going back to it? Yet, there's things they dislike about it, and they really hate that they feel like they can't resist looking at it, once they get that urge. Maybe you're right and its an inappropriate discussion.

I've always found your thoughts and expressions to be insightful and productive.

Regarding the numbered items that I offered, IMO:

I think the first one has some legitimacy.
Number two doesn't apply since in most cases the witnesses are consenting.
Number three is a slim minority and usually obvious and avoidable.
Number four is at the root of the shaming of masturbation and is quite false.

My view is that a person can be a user of limited selections of porn, but must not be addicted to it. If they are married, this should be by agreement only.

One thing goofy I've discovered about myself. It's ONE thing to grow bored and overcome the allure of pornography, but NOW my battle is with the current craze of porn parodies.

If watching attractive women having sex isn't ENOUGH to pry your eyes away from...now porn sucker punches you with parody.

I guess its a niche, a type of fetish of porn... a new allurement. That's one of the weird things about sexual desire is that it can be irrational... whatever happens to "do the trick" in our heads, then the primitive part of the brain records those conditions and objects and drives us back to it again for its next attempt at procreation and maintaining the race. You'll have to include "role play" in your eHarmony profile now.

I'll try to briefly give my personal view on porn as related to your four points.

1) Moot point, porn is made for viewers and the audience doesn't know or care about the relationship of the players.
2)Public nudity isn't a problem it's our obsession with sexuality. In communities where public nudity is commonly practiced it's really only outsiders with any problems.
3)Human predators and those who take advantage of others when they are weak or vulnerable is an immense problem. There is a difference between homemade porn and for profit porn and money seems to bring out the predatory nature. Again viewers don't know or care about the players so I would say this is more of a money problem than a porn problem.
4)The problem is between feeling arousal and being aroused. When you feel, it happens, but when you dwell you step over a line into decision. What we feel may point to deeper areas that need addressed But pretending emotions doesn't help you or anyone else.

Remember I am saying this as personal opinion not hard fact.

@eastcoast you might be surprised how many christian friends secretly gamble, drink, steal and use drugs and are ashamed to let anyone else know. If you don't start the conversation you would never know they had this problem either.

Regarding the theories why porn is wrong and response to your points:

1) "Its wrong because the actors are committing sexual sin." Most porn is not of acts of marriage, so supporting porn by even clicking on a free link is seen as supporting sin, promoting sinful behavior under this theory. For those who think premarital or nonmarital sex is sinful, they would be correct. Many porn categories are of sexual acts that God has forbidden, so these should be avoided.

2) Your point is similar to mine. Lasciviousness is condemned in the Bible, so public sex or nudity is a sin under that standard as a violation of common decency.

3) I don't believe there is much sex trafficking in online porn. http://theantifeminist.com/the-myth-of-sex-trafficking/ See references. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/22/AR2007092201401.html

4) I get what you're saying, one is passive, the other is deliberate. Yet, I think the passive leads to the active. Once a person's mind has become sexually aroused, there is an inclined plane of arousal that seems to be self-propelled like an escalator up to a pleasure high. An erotic thought leads to pleasurable feelings which leads to another erotic thought, etc. I think repressing sexual feelings works contrary to the individual and to their peace of mind. Replacing erotic thoughts with more desirable thoughts works better for those who wish to get off that escalator. I don't believe that passive or active sexual arousal outside of marriage is sinful.

The information on trafficing doesn't surprise me. A lot of myths survive because they are politically convenient and so people want to believe, and that particular one is unusual in that both the left and the right stand to advance their agendas from it. The left wants more scarey bogymen attacking women so they can campaign for more protection for them, thile the right wants plenty of evil people involved with prostitution and pornography to justify spending more resources opposing them. Neither side is going to put any effort into exposing dubious statistics that they wish to use.

It's a shame that the Left and Right are guilty of such manipulations and turning a blind eye from the truth...a kind of reverse sexism on the Left and self-righteousness on the Right...in addition to the love of money and power....such wastes of time/resources hamper the meeting of other significant social needs...