In my opinion from what I have read, they occur as a natural result of inadequate frequency of ejaculation in your waking hours. Your body knows that it is important for sexual potency and general health for it to ejaculate and have orgasms.

About halfway down on this page: http://lavistachurchofchrist.org/LVstudies/Preparation/Male.htm there's a write up about Emissions. I didn't read it but I'm pretty sure of what he'll say about it.

I mean I know the "purpose" but I meant in the BIblical sense why God gives us or doesn't give us sexual dreams

I wouldn't say the dreams are from God. They are just random things that your brain and body react to. I have had quite disturbing wet dreams and wondered where that stuff came from, because I didn't remember seeing it before. Maybe someone else will have an opinion.

Neither. Not everything in life has to be part of a cosmic struggle between good and evil.

I had a dream last night in which thousands of people in assorted uniforms carried buildings around in a dance set to the Great Escape theme. Can you imagine why either side would want to send that one? Dreams are just the result of internal processes in the brain while in a sleep state, doing whatever it is sleeping brains must do in order to function optimally. Fragments of memories, incoherent processing, apparent perceptions fed from internally generated information. They don't mean anything.

Generally, speaking, I agree. I believe that there are exceptions.

I believe the same thing as you guys that maybe our minds just do random stuff and God's not involved but at the same time God's supposed to be sovereign. So...I was hoping their was an explanation but no one really knows....

I have had some very disturbing dreams, some I felt were certainly demonic. So, like I said, most of the time as SR said, its just random crap... like a computer running defrag.

IMO dreams can be of various sources and influence...( I realize the original question applied to "sexual dreams", but my opinions might still be of help here):

*Brain Processing: of random data, input, observations in the waking life

*Subconscious: the psyche's way of trying to work out a problem in your life, i.e. a recurring dream of having stolen something as symbolizing having not forgive one's self and moved on in life in some area

*God: a Vision of clarity as with Peter, or a Prophetic Understanding as with Paul regarding Heaven/the Cosmos...possibly John with the Apocalypse

*Evil: a blatant attack of temptation or harassment to discourage and damage our soul


...God is Sovereign in that He allows us to be tempted by evil in our dreams....maybe for us to work out our faith and exercise it, even subconsciously....or maybe we are living in a vulnerable state, spiritually, with unconfessed sin, so the Enemy has a legal right to attack us in our sleep...but it still could not be the Enemy, but our own psyche "in sin" and affecting our dream state...

At minimum, it pays to be Walking AND Sleeping in the Spirit!...but it still doesn't guarantee that we will only have pleasant dreams....unpleasant dreams might really be a GOOD sign of healing and transformation....

I do not know the term, but I am sure there is a word for it: The tendency of humans to attribute unexplained events to intelligent actions.

@becominwhole10- good on you for answering my question. No one seems to know

@Rob121212....You're Welcome, Rob...I realize what I wrote might seem like it's contradicting itself in some ways, but that is the nature of Truth and Discernment...what we might have thought was one thing might be completely something else! :]

Actually you've been given several different answers here - my own is a particually strong argument. You just can't see the answers because you don't wish them to be true. You are too attached to the idea that you are part of the great battle fought between good and evil, when the truth is that you just aren't that important. Those dreams don't have a purpose, and they don't need one. They just are.

Actually, Raven's exactly correct. The brain constantly rewires itself during every sleep cycle. The process of memories transferring from short-term memory to long-term memory can only be done during REM sleep. Here's a very brief summary of how that process works:

Your brain is full of brain cells called neurons. Every neuron contains hundreds to thousands of branches that all connect to other neurons. Those connections, called synapses, are not hard-wired. Those connections are formed and broken every night during REM sleep. Learning takes place when connections between neurons are reinforced through continued use of the synapse (i.e. when you do a process or recollect a fact repeatedly). As this occurs, layers of fat cells insulate the synapse to make the connection a more permanent bond.

Though science is not clear on the mechanics of dream sequencing, all current evidence supports a relationship between the rewiring of the brain's synapses and dream sequences...almost as though dreams are a side-effect of the learning process that occurs during REM sleep.

I wouldn't read too deeply into your dreams. I was chased by cookie monster repeatedly when I was three, and my first wet dream involved my brother and sister being trapped in a diving bell submerged in a kiddie pool. Weird things happen in dreams. They aren't made to make sense.

Excellent Pollux. Glad to hear from you again.

When you're a teenager guy, and you see boobies for the first time, (and actually recognize them as boobies, not just breasts), your brain registers an emotional response. That's an experience it's never felt before, and the brain needs to process that. The sexual dreams you experience as a teenager is the process your brain goes through to connect objects that your brain is familiar with (mostly body parts) with the emotional nerve center of your brain. The dream is a side effect of the rewiring process your brain goes through in the process of learning sexuality.

You'll notice, as you get older, that these sexual dreams become less frequent and less emotionally intense (though they never go away completely). That's because, as an adult, your brain already has emotional neural pathways established. There's not a lot of new connections that need to be added or subtracted, and thus not nearly as many dreams that you experience as a result of you brain learning sexuality.

And that's why our sexual excitements vary so wildly. Understanding why Raven gets so turned on by furry fantasy is as foreign to me as her understanding why I get turned on seeing my wife naked. We can't change those neural pathways which trigger sexual responses in our adulthood, as that wiring process occurs and becomes almost-hard-wired in our teenage years.

And that's why people shouldn't be so afraid of sexual dreams. They're a natural experience.

@pollux-I'm not afraid of those dreams I just wanted to know if God had a purpose for them. I guess it's something to do while we're lying still on a bed.

Thanks again Pollux. I thought the reason sexual dreams become less frequent or stimulating was because we just get enured to sex, we're too jaded. Your explanation makes good sense.

Here's an article you might like if you haven't read it: http://mwillett.org/mind/masturbate.htm

I respect and appreciate the information Pollux brought up regarding the brain, but to not read too deeply into our dreams is discounting and rather non-spiritual, IMO....we are not mere machines with random and purposeful firings of the brain....while I am not advocating living in fear of being attacked and overwhelmed by evil during sleep, I am saying to be alert, not naive, as to our Enemy and to have one's spiritual armor on at all times.....and I include myself in this exhortation!

There is no Enemy out to get you. Firstly because there is no Enemy, and secondly because if there were I am sure he would have more important things to do than tempt you. You really are not that valuable.

...some are more valuable than others, so some get "special attention" at times...since we are the true Enemy to the Evil Realm...

Regarding being attacked during sleep, has anyone here besides me experienced sleep paralysis -- a "witch riding your back". I've experienced it three times and was certain that there were entities taunting me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis#Folklore This experience has various names and explanations world wide.

I had a roommate-- a wacko-- who believed that wet dreams were caused by spirits of lust such as incubi, succubi, who visit two lustful dreamers and gather the sexual feelings of each and transpose them to the other while they slept!

Not personally, but I know someone who has, and I've often had strange hallucinations while on the edge of sleep.

I believe I was attacked by an evil entity months ago...very surreal...eerie...

I had a pal at school who was attacked for a few months...he'd be awakened in the middle of the night, wide awake, paralyzed, and could barely muster up the strength to rebuke the spirits in the Name of Jesus....he was the only Christian in his family, who were nominal Indian Hindus...he believed he was being harassed naturally for his faith...he also wondered if the masks in his room (he lived with a rich elderly couple who collected art from around the world) carried spirits/spiritual curses...

I would have trouble sleeping in that room if I was that friend of yours, BW10. Sounds like he experienced what I did. Its probably the most frightening experience I've ever had. I felt like the guy or girl in the movie "Nightmare on Elm Street"... it was very powerful, I was wide awake mentally... knew where I was physically, but couldn't see, move, or really feel anything physical without extreme concentration. I heard things from the dream world I guess and seemed to sense and see things from it, yet I knew I was laying in my bed and the sense of fear, stark fear, was overwhelming. I wanted to wake up and get up, but I couldn't. Felt like I could hardly breathe. The first time it happened, I was in a small motel room... I thought I heard voices of people outside coming up the step, don't remember what was in the room. The only way I was able to snap out of it was I began to realize that my left hand was on my chest. So, I tried to tap my chest with my finger, until I could feel my finger touching my chest. As i gained control of my finger, then my hand, my sense of touch began to return, then the visual returned, then the audio last as best as I recall.

The second or third time it happened was when i sensed three entities in my room taunting me, two at my feet, one by my left side. I tried to remember the Lord's prayer and praying it I was able to break out of it. It contributed to my growing belief in God at the time. I was so afraid I didn't want to go back to sleep. I journaled about it and talked to a friend who had been warning me to stop trying to have Out of Body Experiences. I concluded that she was right.

Those are some scarya@@ experiences you had, EC!....I'm glad you stopped seeking Out of Body Experiences...someone dear to me had a similar experience as you of seeing three entities in her room...a bit like what you went through...it reminds me of when I wanted to go to a friend's house in high school to try out a Ouija Board...I managed to mention to my mother what I was going to do (I was intrigued, but barely felt like I should tell her)...she erupted and told me NO!...[ Good Call, Ma! ]

...what I didn't mention about my pal at school was that he not only felt paralyzed, but PINNED down in bed...further than waking up "frozen in fear"...there was force to it!......freakin' scary.....but something he had to work through in his spiritual life....

It is never a good idea to pay much heed to the strange experiences on the edge of sleeping and waking. Your brain is not functioning well at those times - strange hallucinations are not unusual. I've experienced things which felt as real as can be, but which couldn't possibly have happened. Something running over my chest in a room which couldn't possibly contain rats, a shark swimming through the air, phantom limbs I don't even have.

This is how myths get started. People experiencing strange things, and turning to the supernatural to explain them.

At the time it seemed real to me, realer than real, yet as I've read some of the psychology of it and the circumstances, I've noticed some conditions in the physical realm that often attend these mental experiences, so i agree that the verdict is out. If you've ever had the experience, you would swear its real, because you are conscious of where you are and these things are still going on. spooky.

Again, there is a difference between feeling paralyzed and being pinned down...the natural doesn't explain that...it's good to be skeptical of both the supernatural and the natural explanations...not only one or the other...

The natural explains that perfectly well. Would you expect to be able to process information normally in such a state? In that situation, you can't even rely on your own senses to tell you what is going on.

The natural is insufficient...the supernatural intersects our world in ways we experience and are cognizant of, and also not, because we have deliberately chosen to dull ourselves because "there is always a natural explanation"...a common error...

I think of the "spiritual realm" as possibly another dimension 'a la' string theory. I'm too tired to read this now, but this article expresses similar idea: http://paradoxbrown.com/sciencesupernaturalmiracles.htm/

There is always a 'natural' or nothing would happen. It is in the description, of often a missed detail, and certain of it by any particular view, which is the determinant, to whether it is 'supernatural' or not- 'natural' does not impose a lack of fantasm, nor does 'supernatural' defy description. If the natural is truly insufficient, we should all stop eating and existing and ignore our pains- we should stop trying to make sense of our reality in order to participate within it, which would put religion in a pine box. Religion and spiritual beliefs are as natural as they come- naturally, most likely, you were born, naturally, most likely, you took your first gasps of air, naturally you have eaten animals and foliage and roots reared upon the earth, or incubated within it, and for a rational, cognitive being, this has brought on a sense of need in the psyche, which has become an action of thanks and honour, for the life which has been brought to you by if not totally natural means, then the most unrepresible natural continuation of something which was more natural at some point- if that is not the root of all religion of sense, springing from nature or natural realism- then what does your conviction stand upon? Magical zippiddy do-zah, to believe whatever you want, like books fall from the sky as somehow superior and perfect without corroborated relevance to the place time circumstance something directly intimate with your situation? Religion relies on the natural desire for humanity to try and make sense out of their existence, including by far, their natural bodies and their natural surroundings, they don't readily ascertain natural from unnatural but the unusual from the usual- everything else is a form of psychosis which doesn't account for an adequacy of sense, while admitting what it has missed, or could have.

Ok.... I'm going to have to call that as a joke. There is no way I can see that pseudoparagraph was supposed to mean anything.

Me, I'm high on life. Mushroom Man makes sense to me... kinda. I think supernatural and natural debates are more semantics than anything else... the natural being the ordinary course of events, the supernatural being out of the ordinary, like a crucified man rising from the dead.

It's not a joke, and there is nothing unusual, nothing inexplicable, only what is infrequent. A miracle is what you failed to consider, or see, debunking it only leads to the further wonders of the things which caused it, not the end of wonder. Natural, supernatural, they have no meaning, there is but nature and being, end of story. If something happens, then it warrants that it is natural, or else it could not have happened.

Riddle me this why are people diddling with all this riddling which is just scribbling, piddling and siffling, you guys must be bored.

@paulg1-lol

I just thought since God was sovereign that maybe he governed our dreams too.
I didn't know people were going to argue endlessly about seemingly nothing

The only governance was wet dreams i.e. and it was more of a health risk than anything else, either way your question won't get answered because most of our dreams are controlled by our awake hours, however there are visions where you could seem to be asleep for a short period of time. As far a the deceiver he doesn't need to be that subtle, he's in your face 24-7. Genesis 3. 1 Peter 5:6-10.

@paulg1

Really, that's weird, I tend to recall Paul saying something about clever snares, not correct me if I am wrong, snares are to be hidden, it makes them more effective?

And there's something about proud and ingenius speech in there too. And The devil can still appear as a splendid angel, and more about signs and wonders to deceive even the elect, The entire book of Job rings a bell, the whole time he's been tempted to curse god, but he doesn't blame the devil, despite the book declaring he's the cause... Heck the serpent was clever and unimposing... in fact every reference to false teachers and proud but persuasive arguments seems to disagree with you- if he's so obvious, how could anyone possibly take this guy seriously? In fact, God tells the Israelites to not to marry foreigners, lest they be led astray by LOVE! And then they divorced them anyways when they became free and returned from Persia... because everything was so clear and obvious- their wives were of the devil- but god despises divorce. Peter is told to kill and eat what could be said to be the devil's meal of unclean beasts- but that's from God, Ezekiel is told to cook his food with human shit- something to make him unclean, but that came from God. Lets keep going... God has David take the census, or was that the devil... seems no one can decide. Samson finds honey, the favour of God in a dead ass, is this God or the Devil, god's reward in something he can't touch... and impossible situation. Hosea is told to marry a prostitute... God doesn't want us to worship in groves or gardens like Idolaters do, yet, the image of the Garden is the example of right relationship with God and his creation... and everywhere God pronounces judgement and removes people, there the wild, another kind of Garden takes it back, and this is undesirable... Paul talks about how all these seemingly necessary rituals inborn on a religious life are really just mutilations- they benefit nothing, there are no laws which deny the touch, the taste, yet people do them with relish like they mean something... Israel became lost in sacrifices over mercy and service and called it worship to God... Why should we put on an armour, and keep a watch, and do not believe we are standing firm, for that is when we will fall?



Could it be you have no idea what you're talking about?

@miracleman- He says one thing that might not be right and you're trying to knock him down to the ground....I don't get it

Because it is the simple minded stupidity which turns the earth into hell and says, 'it's wonderful, we'll just put up some curtains, find a stick that's not too burned... and some curtains.'

not so @Miracle Man you aboviously didn't know Job, he was blameless, God allowed Satan and lifted the veil as a test of his faithfulness to God.

Satan is in your face, you and many are blind to the truth and cannot see the constant temptation around you. Further he tempts we do, Satan doesn't make you do. Even though all thought that Job had done something wrong from the circumstances around him and judged him, he never gave up on God and didn't believe that it was God's punishment and patiently waited for God's answer. You can see from this story that God protects us against temptation, it is in the Lord's prayer as well. I wonder how many would stand firm in their faith today? He was tempted like very few have been tempted and the answer is do not turn away from God, also if you read further God restores all and more because he was faithful. This is a testament that God is good and that if you are going through tribulation it isn't necessarily God which is harming you.

"not correct me if I am wrong" - now correct me if I am wrong. Yes you are wrong.

The rest of your rabbit style comment, I only respond with "1 Cor {3:18} Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. {3:19} For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. {3:20} And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. {3:21} Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; {3:22} Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; {3:23} And ye are Christ’s; and Christ [is] God’s." KJV

Your verbosity astounds many here but you fool no one who's foundation is in the love of God, Christ. Without understanding and accepting His love you might never find revelation in the Bible, the Word of God.

All the best.

God is Almighty

Miracle Man has listed some "apparent contradictions" or inconsistencies. I would say these are in the text that we might not presume upon absolute truth, ponder things more intently and realize among other things that the spirit of the law trumps the letter of the law. In brief from memory as to some of MM's assertions: I think the idea to divorce their Canaanite wives may have been more of a human decision than a divine mandate; they were trying to undo a wrong that they had committed. God hates divorce, but he allowed it to be done under given circumstances and lawful means, since years later He would Himself divorce His two spiritual wives/sisters, Israel and Judah. Peter was being informed (again) that the law of unclean meats is no longer absolute since the New covenant has subsumed the Old. Jesus had already pronounced all meats clean during His ministry, but most of His listeners didn't catch it (Mark 7:19). I think ezekiel was told to use manure for fuel in cooking, as a parable to communicate God's message. Hosea and Gomer were a living parable too; there are many of these in the OT. The census that David took is a classic illustration of the relationship of Satan and God to the saints, in this case, a covenant nation and their leader. God's anger at Israel gave Satan the opportunity to instigate David their king to commit a sinful act which would bring judgment upon them all. Hmmmmm...... God's anger at the U.S. could cause them to elect a leader who would bring judgment upon them all ?

@paulg1 ....

"Your verbosity astounds many here but you fool no one who's foundation is in the love of God, Christ. Without understanding and accepting His love you might never find revelation in the Bible, the Word of God.

All the best."

You criticize Miracle Man as a fool while tying his "verbosity" to a lack of understanding and revelation....then tie it up simply with a cherry on top of a blessing at the end, which comes off, rather, as insincere....more like a curse. Where is your love?

...while I have not agreed with everything I have read from Miracle Man, I have often found myself heartily confronted with Truth and blessed with Insight...Wisdom...

...do you believe that only those who are Believers in Christ have Truth, Wisdom, Love?...then you inhabit a sorely narrow world, which in my strong opinion, errs on the side of truth (small "t"), but misses God's bigger picture altogether...

@paulg1

So let me clarify here- You stated something simple and easily contained, a comfort which disregards all potential irregularities and complexities.

I then cited close to about twenty specific biblical contexts, most of them where God directly contradicts his own commandments to send a message- attempting to illustrate that scripture points to an uncontrollable something or other called God which does not meet our expectations about reality- ie, 'Thoughts and ways, so much higher than your own', 'does new things no one sees coming', 'defies even our most radical imaginings', [all those are biblical quotations], I also give several contexts of where the people of God disobey his direct mandates call it obedience, and justice and incidently, absolutely right, and you shoot back- without considering for a moment the implications, that only you know truth.

Then you begin to give me contextless scriptures, not the events themselves, but commentary on events and ideas isolated from their purposes to serve your own- correct me if I'm wrong, but all of these ideas, just like mine, have been passed down to you from men- the scriptures written by men, in poetry that wasn't written to you, wasn't written into your time in history- and without any implications upon the existence of god or revelation- you tell me you know what it says, based on what you have been told from others, and which you repeat in order to be accepted and avoid causing trouble- without having looked into those contexts, without considering, that perhaps, five thousand, two thousand years later, maybe, since we're not even that culture, there's another way to look at it? What is the purpose of your faith, sir? To deny reality, esp. the one which claims this God was most active in?

Then you tell me the devil is always up in your face. Well, considering this isn't even a mature process of evil- which if you stopped to look at history, most dominantly slaughters millions of people when it thinks it has the answers and knows everything, and has finally found the 'solution' to human nature- like many people use the Holy Spirit to mean- which turns out to be oppression, abuse, blood shed, 'this human being is acceptable' this is what Jesus is making- people who keep their heads down.

You see, if you bothered to read things beyond self confirming isolated pop-theology books- you would realise that one, societies, like Christian society, fall apart as soon as they make the assumption they have something no one else has- and when this happens they become a closed circuit- something like a corn field genetically altered not to regrow- the only way it can is to produce clones or cannibalise other plants into mutations- and neither of these has the robust genetic structure or cohesion to sustain itself- further more- evil is never up in ones face- because it is internal, we're close to it, it is intimate- but so is virtue- but evil in one's face has less of a chance of continuing than what is the much more clever kind of evil- the evil scripture describes in many of those contexts I gave you- that which seems good in isolation, for the self alone is what we do- this is why the religious leaders gave gold to the temple, but none to the widow- what was good for them- Greeks called these people idiots- the bible calls them fools. Most of them knew the scriptures, but not a one of them could tell you that the messiah would be god, because they never considered anything except their own closed circuit perspective, and their closed circuit perspective- despite supposedly informing them that each human being is a tiny christ, an image of god already- couldn't get it through their heads that maybe a real messiah doesn't change your political situation, he insists you do the right thing.

Examine an alcoholic, he takes swig after swig of something, which is good, and esp. to him deep within his being- it serves his purpose. But do you know what the moment is called when this brutal activity finally comes and looks him in his face- it's called 'the moment of clarity', when he finally sees this evil thing and what it has caused him to do- and wilfully- and they repent most of them, in that moment of clarity- you see, evil in your face makes you galled and refusing. It makes you stop think, see what is happening, take responsibility. Yet, look at addicts- when they are confronted by the evil leeching away their bodies and ruining their relationships- they don't succumb- they deny the evil thing- predominantly because it's not in their face, it appears good and wonderful, and no one is going to make them stop and think anything else, no one is going to place it in their line of thought and point out the maggots coursing through it. Which is exactly my point in the contexts provided- evil is subtle, a thief, if whom was so obvious as you say, you would lock your door against. This is what Paul talks about, arrogance to think you have it figured out- arrogance ALL the prophets talked about- what do you think they mean every time they ask anyone 'to see their deeds, turn from iniquity, repent with sackloth and ashes- and then God will take them back.'? Hmmm, they're everyone of them TELLING THE PEOPLE TO STOP AND LOOK EVIL IN THE FACE, and become sick against it- why do you think Hosea is told to marry a prostitute- because the people of Israel were whoring themselves out, and calling it obedience, and finding it wonderful, what do you think Ezekiel was told to burn his dinner over human excrement: the people were offering god their shit, and then living in opulence, which is to say, they gave nothing to the poor and needy- because evil IS NOT AT ALL OBVIOUS, it stands in the periphery, wears fine clothes, and whispers what seems sensible and wise. Or else why tell someone 'He can still take on the form of a splendid angel.'? In fact it's so obscure, that God doesn't even explain what evil is to job- it's so inborn in us that even Jesus says, 'Let no man fall away on account of me.'

And I am wrong? Please! You really don't know what you're talking about. Likely because you are not stopping to wonder if maybe things are more complex than a few sentances on rice pages. You might find it hypocritical of me to say you're wrong and ignorant and saying I am right- but I am not presuming to tell evil what form it will take, or what reality will do, only what it has done, and only that it can take any form, because it is subtle, elusive- why else would John say 'but men loved evil and avoided the light.' Because where evil can go unseen is the only place it can thrive. Why else are you Christians told to confess? So that, according to your theology, you can bring your misgivings into the light and with the presence of transcendance, find clarity for what is silly, and what is evil which you noticed dart from the grey into the shadow and caught a brief moment- to turn on all the lights and make the shadows in our OWN spirit account for themselves and be exercised- It's quite galling for a person on an anti-porn site to tell everyone 'evil is so damned obvious', while everyone struggles with their conscience as to why sex is universally good, but makes them feel like shit- if it doesn't entice with foggy shady obscure realities- no one would be tempted by anything, and those who were would be perverse- is that what you want to encite- the all who sin are by nature perverse? If so, then all these people here who repent in their hearts and feel guilt and shame must be some exceptional kind of fraud.

Look at one of the most exceptional forms of evil in our lifetime- Rwanda- and do you know how this happened, Belgians treated Hutus like they were not people, and so the Hutus learned how not to see other people as human- they found a way to keep clarity, and the idea of human beings out of their line of sight- and they killed a million people! How- well, one wonders, since they called them cockroaches, if they did not actually see, writhing, bleeding, screaming dying cockroaches of a giant magnitude everywhere they went- not human beings- because evil is seductive- it will even play upon your nobility- what do you think the forbidden is- its not rebellion- it is to stand for something. If woman tries to seduce you, are you to say you're not conflicted by her beauty? And how should you respond- because if you are indelicate and see only an illicit human function of sex and scathe her in refusal- you've committed evil for the sake of your religious principals who has not seen a human being.

You have, oddly, called me unwise- but proverbs has two very very distinct parallel themes in- that of Lady Sophia- often called in very similar terms with Jesus, and the Whore- how Sophia is said to behave sounds almost exactly how a whore behaves- she stands upon he front porch calling for men to come to her and receive wisdom- so is wisdom evil? Not at all- but knowing that wisdom is good, the whore of fools imitates her so sink many a youth. You call me a fool lacking wisdom, but you have never learned its lessons. Wherever there is a power of purpose and good- there then is the little nag dressing the part of the hypocrite, lowering the royalty, the fool playing the king- Pharoah relies on his serpents- God shows a greater serpent Ramses cannot rely upon. The defiance of actual reality burst forth, and you realise that cobras protect no man- and therefore what a brutal and unworthy king takes his instruction from snakes. Yet, it is good, yes, because it is vicious, powerful, unassailable and deadly- as a good king should be yes? How many times have you read Exodus and seen all the counter miracles of Ramses' priests, and you say evil is obvious. Are you so arrogant as to claim then that Jesus skipped through his own temptations- because they were so obvious? Or are you just fool enough to believe that everyone else on earth is an easy infantile mark who loves to ruin their body because it's ruining it? Do you comfort the suffering 'There there you pathetic idiot, you have Jesus now to induct you into the patronising ridicule of righteousness.'

You have no sense for these things, you would tell me that the purpose of Job is to tell us to keep faith- the purpose of Job is to tell us, that like Ecclesiastes, we have no clue what is going on. And the truth of the matter is, Job does blame god, but says that if this is it, it is just, he doesn't say god cannot do these things, he stands by that he has done nothing wrong- and wonders why God has not protected him- oddly enough, on a similar bad premise of trying to understand the universe as all job's friends- they say you have sinned, repent and be set free- yet he says- I have not, I do not know why this is, though it should stand that he would. And God rebukes him for this- it's odd how quick you people pull out all your incorrect scriptures for every case of challenge- but you don't ever connect the psalm 'god formed me in my mothers womb, and planned all the days of my life' with Job cursing his birth and his life- which by your logic and your practice suffices to be a curse against god. You speak of Job as though, if you keep the faith then all will be bestowed unto you? Have you never read Hebrews eleven and twelve, or their are miracles and battles won- but then there are those sewn into animal skins and ripped to pieces- and there are just as many sorrowful lives with no regress and no reward in there as their are victories- and you call me a fool- that you predict and I say there are many more things that seem like dice than any of us can ever prove otherwise and will never be told they aren't.

So I have to ask- considering that all these people the bible was written about and by, didn't have scripture, and weren't indwelt by God, his Holy Spirit, how is it they knew him better and were wiser than you, whom have both?

I gave you the example of Samson finding honey in the body of a dead donkey- which is an impossible situation, because here is Samson, the Judge of God, finding his favour in a dead thing which he cannot touch, he cannot touch the donkey without becoming unclean, and he cannot refuse the honey without insulting god- yet, here, if you are wise, tell me who this dead donkey is whom as a corpse offers favour to mankind to do God's work? You will say he rose from the dead- I say it doesn't matter, from a man called a fool, comes forth life, offered to live in you- grace, favour, life, endurance- and you cannot see it. You quote scripture, but cannot see it's insight, whose possibilities defy even me, as they clearly do you and when I am gone, and finally rid of you odd Christian folk who do not talk to this god fellow of yours- others will come along with better insight, and you'll call him fool, with stones in your hand, giving snakes instead of water, stones instead of bread, swinging your millstone and calling it compassion, massaging your kneck without relief, calling drunkard and glutton, while you relax in your own ego, or demon and famine while you are starving- refusing to stop and see what you are doing, or anything other way, and blaming everything wrong with the world on those who do the exact opposite.

Maybe evil can sometimes be subtle and other times be "in your face"

There, now stop arguing.

@eastcoast things taken out of context to stand in judgement over God. I merely give them warning. He obviously doesn't like it and is attempting to bait me into pearls to pigs land.
@becominwhole10 you do not know how to read or you have been around to many which strip the meaning out of God's Word to suit their argument.
@Miracle Man trying to be a prophet now as well as God's judge. I stand firm in Christ my redeemer like I said before, and, from your response I see I was correct in using the word verbosity, perhaps it should have been prefixed with useless. Can you not see past your ego, you think that you are wiser than God your response indicates this. I did not call you a fool but you have judged yourself, because you think you are wise, it is not about me and you but you and God. I have given you good scripture you may wish to use it or not that is entirely up to you, if you think that I will stroke your ego and praise your so called wisdom you are very wrong, I praise God and rely on Christ, you in all your rantings cannot take that away from me. Your verbal assault cannot make me believe that I am not worthy, because in Christ I am made worthy.

Do you not know....

God is Almighty

@superanonymouse Thanks for the thought.