I just glanced at the article, since it's pretty flippin' long and I'm ailing!...Thank You for posting it! :] ...I saw some points already the author made that are helpful and solid...I disagree with him in other ways...sorry, but I will have to post later on this, but wanted to at least give a shout out of appreciation...

No, problem @becominwhole10. Thanks for taking the time. It is pretty long. I thought it might appeal to gomerite and others who are sorting their thoughts on this subject.

I couldn't get through it all. I see the old everything-is-religion thread is running strong in that piece though, even going to far as to claim that immodest clothing is a form of pagan worship.

Sexual immorality IS running rampant in our culture. Good article. I tweeted it.

Raven didn't "tweet", just cawed :>

@SuricouRaven I noticed he made the claim that sexual immorality in general was idolatry.

If someone can explain that here, I think they would do a service.

As I see it the reference to idolatry by Paul is as a modifier of "covetousness", which some translations render greediness. Strictly speaking, I would tie this to devotion to money, as Jesus talked about "You cannot serve God and Mammon ("Riches personified, what one trusts in") But, I suppose if a person is consumed with an insatiable sexual appetite, then they have replaced God with sex; in that, the Bible says " be content with such things as ye have: for He hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee".

People who are sex addicts as described in the other article I posted have never recognized God's love and provision, and live their lives in fear.

I can explain in in the more cynical way. You need to stop looking at what the writer said, and look instead at how the writer thinks in order to say such things. You are reading the thoughts of one for whom their religion is all, and who views the world in terms of competing religions. To a mind like that, anything that distracts from Christianity has to be seen as a competing religion.

I read a lot of things written by very devout believers, and it's common to see them describe anything and everything as a religion competing with Christianity for the attention of potential believers. Ideologies, political positions, hobbies.

@SuricouRaven...I am not threatened in that way as a Christian, baptizing paranoia as spirituality...I am VERY curious if you can submit some links/articles regarding such things relating to positions and hobbies....I want to sharpen my mind a bit...not picking on you in any way...

Hmm... well, when looking for 'everything is religion' people, the name that springs to mind is that of Dave Hunt. Shouldn't take long to find an example on his website.

http://www.thebereancall.org/node/8404
"First of all, it shouldn't be surprising that the beliefs of most people are not derived from Sunday school or church teaching but rather religious ideas they pick up from a wide variety of sources as they go through life. ... Movies often teach theology. Some have greatly influenced our last two generations about the character and qualities of God and perhaps none more than the Star Wars series, which began in the late 1970s. This series promoted the supreme deity as an impersonal, amoral energy "Force" that could be tapped into and used for one's own end through mental techniques."

That's a good example of the manner of thinking. Hunt, like the author of the article we are discussing, doesn't distinguish religious teaching and non-religious teaching - to him, *everything* teaches religion, so even Star Wars becomes dangerous corruptor of Christian beliefs. He can't quite get the concept of not taking fiction seriously. The whole article is there to make the same argument in regards to Avatar, claiming the movie is "a spectacular platform for preaching shamanism."

You also see it a lot from creationists, talking about the 'Darwinism' - they often view science as a form of religion, complete with it's own creation story, and as a religion naturally incompatible with Christianity. Coulter even write a whole book on the theme, "Godless: The Church of Liberalism," which describes liberalism as a religion.

An interesting thing about religions is that you can only have one - not least because most of them prohibit practicing any other. So if you can convince Christians that something else (say, liberalism, as Coulter argued) is a religion, then you force them to choose between that something and their Christian faith... and they'll always choose the latter.

SR, thank you for your comments and the link...I am of mixed opinion on this matter...

I think there is a spirit of paranoia rife in Evangelical circles that fogs the intellectual discussion in matters of popular culture or on the more sophisticated level of art...Example: parents that are against The Chronicles of Narnia because there is a witch involved...rubbish, I say!

But....as with "The Golden Compass" I at first defended the film before viewing it against those that categorically denounced it...THEN I saw it and found it to be anti-God...so, in this case the prejudging-paranoid-parents were conveniently correct...hopefully, they won't carry such an attitude with them furthermore in life, though...

It depends on what the movie is...if your point is that there are those that find "religion" in everything, then I agree...that is far, far too absolute of a position to take....my challenge to those involved in this discussion, on whatever side, is to be excruciatingly honest about calling something what it is...if a movie has a certain view of God, the Cosmos, Fate, Revenge, Evil, Good, then it would be SO refreshing if ALL involved would admit it....and that goes for Non-Believers as much as Believers!

From what I read James Cameron stated that he would be supportive of a global eco-terrorism with accompanied violence...I saw it as a quote from an interview blurb...so, it might be inaccurate...if it is accurate, then a fantasy film like "Avatar" is not mere entertainment, but laced with propaganda....( propaganda to me can be good or bad )...

What I appreciate about your "beef" is that it seems that the more fearful parents aren't equipping their children to think for themselves and discern what a movie or story or song is...differentiate symbols..."read" at a deeper level...but again, that includes the "good" and "bad" works...in my experience I still discuss/debate other Christians that feel some song or movie is bad when they are not seeing the heart of the message beyond the outer forms or modes of delivery...

The Golden Compass film is not anti-God. The book series is. But the studio excised all that from the film to avoid inciting an angry mob. There's barely a hint of religion left in the film, which really rather ruins it by removing the motivation for the villains. In the book they are a religious organisation, and all of their actions are justified by their theology and in particular their views on a means of reversing original sin. In the movie, all their religion is gone... which reduces them to just some well-funded thugs in robes who like to experiment on children for the hell of it.

I haven't seen or read either and probably won't, but the book sounds more interesting the way you describe it SR. As I see it, if someone wants to produce an anti-God or anti-Christian film, that's certainly their right to do so, and its the right and privilege of educators and parents to pose their counter arguments, rather than whine about it.

Yeah, whining isn't impressive...but the movie, even as watered-down from the book, is still anti-God...doesn't matter to what degree, even if it is one iota, it still is...and it was pretty clear to me...

Thanks for the heads up in case the kids are watching, I'll give them fair warning.

i have the twilight movie...had it in a box filled with stuff i really dont care to much for which my daughter went through(6yrs old) well i caught her watching the movie but not just any scene she was re winding their kiss scene, so i talked to her about this. few days later caught her looking up sex on you tube while i was at work and her dad was supposed to be watching her but he fell asleep on the couch. i put k9 web blocker on her profile on the computer so i blocked you tube from her "allowed" list, its everywhere and twilight sooo not for kids even though its aimed at pre teens and teens kids are getting into it

does K9 track your husband's history? I don't think a parent should sleep while their child is awake.

no only hers, i dont want to track his! i mean it can, but i dont want it too so its only her account it tracks, that happened with refog and never again!!!! i rather suspect then know, sounds weird but knowing killed me and i became obsessed with what was he doing today behind my back! i dont wanna travel that road again. i agree! he passed out on the couch which i can relate because he works overnight and i work days, this is also why i just hired someone to keep the kids while i work so he may sleep

You must have a new version of K9. They never had user profiles before.

Well, I wouldn't track him unless he asked you too. I did come across one of your old posts that said he felt like his use of porn shouldn't bother you, but I would say if it does he should respect you enough to try to discuss it or work something out in some way. Plus, like I said on the other post, if its causing him to deny you relations then he's out of line, and if I may say so, kind of dumb. I know guys like to do both, because we enjoy sexual arousal and sexual variety, but the real thing is where its at, all factors being equal. If it helps any, just keep remembering in most cases this isn't about you. Its an old habit that guys pick up and with the internet, porn addiction is stronger than ever and hard to break. Like I said, its not because a man doesn't love his wife. She has his heart and soul, but his imagination is another story sometimes.

@MrsJMadore...I can testify to my being "dumb" as EC mentions...I dated a woman that I was very sexually attracted to....we fooled around a bit...not quite intercourse, but still had fun...even if I was very "satisfied" within days or weeks I would still be interested in porn....the variety aspect was a very big pull for me and it still is a temptation that I must push aside since in the end it doesn't lead me to be a guy that can focus on my girlfriend....or prepare me to be a single-minded husband someday...

...but it is a VERY common issue with men...something they must learn to handle or they will be handled by porn...

...I know it's easier said than done to encourage you to not take your husband's porn-viewing personally, but I understand you want security as a woman, too....I'll just say this: if my last girlfriend was as understanding and gracious as you've been, then it would have helped a lot....I give credit to you in that department! :]

Twilight has a somewhat contradictory message - one of the subtexts is the importance of abstinence until marriage, which is a major theme in the books (far less so in the movies), and yet both movies the books contain a great deal of very sexual imagery to appeal to the audience.

I keep deleting pics of topless twilight hunks from the servers at school. The girls love it.

EC to be honest it very well may i only use it to block things on annalise's computer profile it does nothing to ours. but i also downloaded it while on hers so i dunno if that has something to do with it. like i said i really REALLY dont want to know, not knowing is killing me BUT knowing crushed me.

BW ty very much! I love him and i dont ever plan on giving up on him. I dont look at him as a "bad" person because i know he is not he is just a victim of media. me and my grandma talked the other day on the difference between todays media and the media years ago. sex is what the media is about. even little girls clothes are becoming to risky!! why would they make a low cut shirt to fit 6 yr olds?? there is NOTHING there! short skirts and "booty shorts" wow! we are strict about how are girls dress so nothing like that is in our baby's closet!

SR i must admitt i love! the books. movies suck after reading the books. my loving sister got me the movie for christmas and i kept it in the box mostly because of annalise, did not want her watching it. and back to the whole sex in the media thing. girls and boys are going to want to look at the opposite sex regardless but they really no longer have to sneak around, just turn the tv on and BAM! you got it. sad really i realized it after becoming a mom at 16 how much the media affects the way we look at things, like i saw nothing wrong with ingaging in sexual activity so young because thats what everyone else was doing, thats what they talk about in songs and you see it on the movies so 16 with a baby, they even have those shows now on mtv teen mom or whatever WOW

Unfortunately, most people aren't mature enough to have children at the age when their body wants to have children. That is the fault of our modern culture. The only practical thing to do is to teach safe sex and go back to the days when you could learn a trade in your teens and then raise a family. Cuts down on a lot of the stress and angst of the modern world.

soo true everyone says i was the exception to the stereotype my life was my baby. i never partied, i took care of my girl, i never went anywhere she could not go. since i turned 21 i went out once, and not on my birthday. i pulled a double at work that day

I guess I'll go in piece-meal here, regarding replying to the lonnnnng piece referred to in this post...

Pt.1

*I embrace the beauty of marriage sexuality, and for those who hold out until marriage to have sex and celebrate their virginity together and honor God, I believe He is well pleased...but this author dichotomizes it vs. the single folk that engage in any kind of sex obviously outside of marriage that he sets us up for a God who is really, really bummed out with us...I don't see His Love that way...there is the ideal, but there are other shades of almost-the-ideal that might be very beautiful still...

*A society's views on sex and sexuality are shown in clothing, then....they're not....I mean, don't we still have to look on the heart of another, rather than the outside?...people can be very ambivalent or clueless about their fashion which not indicate their sexual views much at all....though I am not naiive to the lowering of class and standards and modesty that are apparent in society, either...a mixed bag....

*To the charge that women have a hard time finding modest clothes, is that true?...It doesn't seem so from my outsider's view...but maybe I'm wrong there...

*The lack of barriers in terms of dress suggesting a lack of physical and spiritual (and I would add psychological) barriers in terms of sex...that might be generally true, but again, context and approach are supremely important...the author seems incredibly biased in this regard....as well as showing reverse-sexism(?) regarding if a woman leads with sexuality then she will be mistaken believing that he will want a committed relationship....maybe generally true, maybe just not...a respecting man will respect her before, during and after sex...the author is sexist in that regard...

I thought there were a lot of misrepresentations and stereotypes in the article, but I also felt this guy had thought a lot about the subject and presented some new angles. . . esp. the part about "the lure of pornography" "the enigma of Christians using it" and the "drug of eroticism". I don't believe for a second that girls can't find modest clothing. Neither do I believe that if a guy's first attraction to a girl is sexual, then he won't respect her in other ways too.

Yeah, that IS ridiculous...so if I desire/lust after a gal that implies that I will disrespect her in other ways as opposed to a guy that doesn't "lust" after her at all?...what kind of back-handed logic is that?...besides the fact that it's good to lust after a woman anyway...

Before I go on to comment further about the article, what were the new angles you found and/or appreciated by the author re: the lure of pornography; the enigma of Christians using it; the drug of eroticism.....interested in your thoughts/reflections....

As you know, I disagree with many of the writer's beliefs, but he still makes some interesting points. He goes into some of the possible subconscious motivations, whether we agree with him or not, such as the male hero conquering the servile female, a male who carries repressed anger towards with his mother or women in general (the HALT acronym); he talked about the search for the ideal woman as a subconscious longing to find Eve, our missing half, yet still a mother figure who receives and accepts and loves us.

Here are some quotes:

"Porn is about vicarious sex."
--It's not *only* about that, but for guys living in a country that delays marriage to an unnatural age, then that's what it is for them.

"The male user of porn cannot help but put himself in the place of the man depicted as potent conqueror of the woman."
--We see this in the POV, gonzo films. As to the "potency" observe the abnormal time stretches depicted of near continual thrusting some of which is real, some due to medication or editing, but lets say for the record, not very realistic for most couples. Some men view having sex with a woman as conquering her, a conquest. In ancient writings, cities were personified as women, sometimes said to be raped and conquered by the warrior male.

"But this too is a lie. For the measure of a man is not his body, or his acting, or the shape of his woman. A man is measured by his ability to keep one woman fulfilled, cared for, and satisfied for life."
--Its possible that in the fantasy of porn, a guy may start thinking of himself as a stud, where in reality he would be a flop or has performance anxiety that he's not facing. The shape of his woman is less important than her personality. When a guy gets married, he's marrying a person, not a body. I'm not sure if I entirely agree with the last sentence but I think it has truth to it. Two people dedicated to each other's happiness will have to overcome challenges along the way.

He talked about how porn is like the fast-food of sexual satisfaction (though he didn't use that term); whereas if we delay gratification, focus our energy and time in self-improvement of mind, spirit and body, financial advancements, improving our living environment, it is a more productive use of time to achieve our actual underlying goal, which is having a desirable partner. I'm not saying its all or nothing; just that porn addiction can be deceiving in that we think we're getting what we want, but actually might be getting farther away from it.

"The male user of porn cannot help but put himself in the place of the man depicted as potent conqueror of the woman."

Once again, this serves only to reveal what type of porn you watch.

"A man is measured by his ability to keep one woman fulfilled, cared for, and satisfied for life."

How very unbiblical - even in the NT, it was expected for many men to have multible wives. The NT only prohibits this for priests.

Quite true @SuricouRaven ... so many of the complaints and declarations about the horrors and degradations of porn are based upon a narrow spectrum of the whole--and I've often thought that many critics must have had such limited exposure that they are writing their complaints based upon what someone else described.. particularly claims of drug addicted trafficked women being forced to take part. Actual users know that is an aberration, not the norm.

It may have been permissible for men to have more than one wife, but I would agree with the writer that keeping even one of them "fulfilled, cared for and satisfied for life" would be a herculean challenge, one that I'm not convinced is requisite upon the man. Its part of the romance myth that is so prevalent, but we still like it cause its our myth and occasionally, there is a happy ever after ending.

Porn is found by searching, and people see whatever they seek. If someone says that porn is all about violence and abuse of women... that is just the type of porn they have been searching for. Change the search query a little and I can find you plenty of porn without violence... or some where it's the woman holding the whip, if that's the sort of thing you like :>

hurt me, pull out my feathers.

If many believe that porn is simply violence and degradation of women, then yes, it's as simple as THAT is what they looked for...in my, ahem, vast research on the subject over the years I've hardly found such porn...it's more garden-variety sex, sometimes set to usual fantasies...oh, and yes, to very boring storylines...but the acting is great! :p ....( I never looked at pics in magazines, just read the articles...)

When they give out AVN awards.... well I was going to joke that they certainly don't give out awards for best screenplay, but shut my mouth and call me Spanky, they sure do and a bunch of other "awards" too: http://avnawards.avn.com/2012-nominees/categories/

...you gotta be kidding me...ALL those awards??....they gotta keep the party going, I guess....sheesh...overboard! :o

Anything to be taken seriously, I suppose. I gather the AVNs are still quite prestigious.

@SuricouRaven I guess that depends upon who you ask.

I can't wait each year to view THE show...it's right up there with The Oscars!?

I was going to say something about the 'best in furry' award, but I didn't want to encourage bad behavior. :>

This year's winner for the 7th year in a row.....S. R. Aven!!

Furry doesn't have awards, but the most skilled artists do aquire some measure of fame. Go up to any furry and mention the names of Karabiner, Foxxfire, Ultraviolet, Shawntae Howard, Zen, Shinigamigirl... they'll know who you mean.

You don't have to draw porn to get to be that famous, but there is no denying that it helps a lot.