i just feel like there's something wrong with me. like i'm a mean and bad person. i've been told by some people that i'm a nice person, but to others i seem to be judgemental and just mean. right now, i'm unsure. my heart tells me that i'm not the bad person that i'm percieved as, but my actions, thoughts and feelings at times, doen't show that. i really want to build a better relationship with God, and have a better understanding of Him, but it seems as if o'm always getting sidetracked. there's something missing in my life, and i've been searching for it for over a year now. my life right now isn't going too well, because i'm constantly struggling/conflicting with who i am, my faith and those around me. i rememember praying to God that he remove anyone from my life that wasn't "for me", that kept me upset, or mad. he's done that. he's doing that. the ones that i thought were my friends have proven to not be. the way i felt around them was because we just didn't fit in eachothers lives. i want to get my life right, and they're too busy getting drunk, and just living ungodly lives. if that's the way they want to live their lives, that's fine, but honestly, where do i fit in with all of that? we have different beliefs when it comes to sexuality, God, and Christ-like behavior. i know i just need to severe the ties with these people, but it's hard when you feel like you don't have any other friends besides them... i'm writing this to ask whoever stummbles across this prayer request, to pray for me. pray that God continues to help me on this journey. this journey of self revelation, of learning how to love God, myself and others. pray that Jesus continues to knock on the doors of my heart, and that i let Him in completely. and that He'll stay there. i pray that God bring good christian people into my life. people that understand what i'm going through, and ones who have been where i am now, or are currently in the same position as me. a lost soul that's DYING to be found. i pray that God changes me form the inside and out, and that i'll live for Him and only Him, and that everything i do will be for Him. i just want to become a better person. i don't want to live in sin anymore, or have ungodly thoughts plague me. i want to learn to love and be loved =[
Hi Friend. I guess we could first say "welcome to the battle".It's tough man... it is so tough. Make sure you really try to identify who is really changing you. Maybe it's not all the good Christian people that will change you. I have found that good Christian people often keep me feeling the same- which is fine I guess. I have found that it is often the people who don't believe, or have struggles with firm belief that have changed me the most- Try loving those people like you love good Christian friends- that should be a challenge for you. Because honestly friend, Every human being points to God as being a part of creation- whether believer or not, and you do too! Jesus loves you entirely too much to say "I love these people but not those people". What did Jesus command us to do? "Love God, Love Others". To me, that "others" means people, and those people are just like me, we all struggle and we all screw up. You are not a lost cause friend. In fact, I can see in your language that you are looking for a solution, and I will share what I believe to work: They say that God is with you when you can really see and feel the brokenness and the dirt of life. If there is a loving and caring God, I would think that He would want you to see people the way He sees you. Instead of trying to separate yourself from those people, try loving them. Our judgments and dispositions keep us from other people. People that need to be loved, and when you love them, I mean honestly and truthfully love them, they will love you back! Love until it hurts, and when you think you are out of love, love some more. And you know what? God will continue with you on this journey. It doesn't matter what you have said, thought, or done. There is nothing that can separate you from God. There is nothing that will make God love you less. And you know what else? There isn't a single person that has their life "right"... we will never always be right. We all have crooked spines and no one can stand up straight. And sometimes, those people, like you, need to know that God loves them no matter what they have done. Friend, I have been where you are right now, and I completely understand. I hope this helps you and I will be happy to pray for you!
thank you, aubreywithoutYou. after reading what you have written, i couldn't agree more. why should i try and seperate myself from them? i really do believe that i need to love the ones who do me wrong. i don't feel as if i hate them, i just feel as if they hate me, if that makes any sense. because of what i believe, they exclude me. even though this may be true, i shouldn't let that concern me; just continue to love them, and never stop. i need to stay positive about things, and KNOW that God is always there, anf that he WILL help me, and guide me on the right path! thank you, for your advice. it's helped a lot
I think you should shut up and buy everyone a pint. But that is likely to be my opinion that has been influenced by all the nonsense. I hate the nonsense bullshit. I feel like a man who has just had his cock chopped off, or rather one that never had the cock in the first place, but then it grew... and developed into something mighty.Lemons.
uh, ok jamesz, idk whether you're being sarcastic or serious, sooooo, i'm not gonna comment on what you just said =/
nevermind, i think i understand what you mean now...sorryyyyyyy
Honestly, If you have found something that separates you from others- I usually leave that kind of stuff out... depending on what kind of belief it is. Maybe, if you feel that they hate you because of that- you might need to explain and elaborate to them why you believe it. Not in a condecending way that makes them feel inferior. But I have found that any feeling of hate is due to a lack of communication.. So, even if something separates you from them, you should try to find another way to really "be the gospel" to them in a different way. That's what love looks like.
yeah. i just wish that things would go back to the way they used to be. i wish i hadn't even told them what i believe, because that's when they started to treat me differently. the friend that took me to church with her is a lesbian. she eventually left the church because she didn't agree with what the church was preacging about homosexuality. i told her that i agreed, and that they're against homosexuality because it's against God, and that's my reason for being against it too. she got mad at me just for telling her about what God says will happen to people who continue to live in sin, and every since then she doesn't treat me the same, and it sucks because i treat her NO differently. when i asked her why, she told me it was because i don't respect her beliefs. since our falling out, we haven't mentioned our beliefs again, which i think is best. to this day, i regret even saying anything. i didn't want her to feel like i was "siding" with her mom, and her church, because as a friend, i guess i'm supposed to stay by her side. idk. i'm confused about the situation.
Hey, I'd had afew beers. Things got out of hand. I'm the "drunk one" remember. The comment didn't actually mean anything to do with you at all, or indeed anything that made any sense whatsoever. Netty, seriously though. My close friends have gradually learned that I am a Christian, and they treat me differently. Its like - they don't like or expect to see me getting drunk or chasing women in bars (although ironically that is what i spend most of the day thinking about) so they don't invite me out sometimes. It pisses me off as much that I have lost the connection of that lifestyle that they are continuing on with... I'm just not sure how to work it. It feels like shit sometimes. The only way to deal with it is... ask, would you prefer to compromise or do you think that the Chrisitian way is better? How can you persuade them of this? Can you invite them to some social things with other Christians? I'm fairly shit at that so don't worry. I'm not saying I know what to do, I think I'm just saying I know it sucks. But think about it, it was Christian friends of mine that brought me to places where the gospel was taught/preached. If they hadn't bothered those few times I'd still be lost. It gets rough when God blesses you with way more than you had before, but then you realise you have to use it the way He wants you to. J ps - for some reason I find it quite funny that a lesbian invited you to church (where you got saved?) and then she fell away, but you have stood fast. Flamin' lesbians... Thats because it really doesn't have to do shit with any one or group of individuals sometimes. Remember whos in charge (God). I'm sure you can look back in your life and see that He has been there for you in the past. He will keep you now. Even if it is difficult with your friends, then at least you're keeping on with them, and not just wimping out and just hanging out with a bunch of lame church guys and no one else. You're in the mix. Its good. Really good. In fact it encourages the shit out of me."i wish i hadn't even told them what i believe" Nah - God will remember when you did that if no one else does. Actually, I'll remember it. That was really brave of you, you're like Tom Cruise in the Last Samuri only better for having done that shit.
Well Netty, I would have to disagree with you on the whole homosexuality thing... I don't think it's our job to tell if homosexuals are living in sin or not- That's God's job. It's the Spirit's job to convict, it's God's job to judge, and it's our job to love. I can tell you that behind that label of "homosexual" (whether gay or lesbian) is a person and that person needs to be loved no matter what they are. I don't think we can say that we are really christians if we say that the "Loving others" comes with a list of who not to love and who not to treat equally and interact with. Did Jesus say "Love God and Love others, but not the gays, handicapped, porn stars, and anyone who gives you a dirty look"Did He say that? no. but... Do you think he meant what He said? I sure do. Jesus went around touching those outcasts of society. People literally swarmed him. He talked with promiscuous women! And what did we do to Him? I think you know. : \ I have a room mate next semester that might be gay- we don't know for sure. And you know what? I am a straight male, and I am stiil rooming with him because I love him- he's a great kid that struggles a bit. He needs Jesus really bad. And please, this is all out of the Love for Christ.. Most people would retaliate with a bunch of Biblical jargon that is taken far out of context.. We wouldn't have the Bible if it wasn't for God and His people to love....Nonetheless, we will press forward! I must encourage you to stay by her side! I don't know all the specifics of the situation... But you should probably stick by her side and possibly find a different church to go to... I would also have to recommend readings by Shane Claiborne- he's fantastic! You are still in my prayersLove,Aubrey
in regards to jamesz, it's great to know that there's someone who can relate to what i'm going through. i do agree with you; why try and seperate myself from them completely? it just gets so hard when i'm around them all, because i don't feel wanted. it's like i'm so out of place, and like they don't really want me there, if that makes any sense. i'm going through so much in life, that i think/thought that the best way out woud be to exclude myself from them, but i have to remember that in life there are people that don't believe the same as i do all over the world, and that i'm going to have differences with people, so what's the use of running away? the only thing i can do to lessen the tention between them and i is to let things slide with them, and when it comes to differences, just don't respond and try to ignore it. i'm at a place in my life where i'm not 100% secure with who i am, and that's why i turned to God for help. i need Him really bad. more than i thought i did. my friend and i both agreed to respect eachothers beliefs, but i still get crap about what i believe. just little refrences like "people can love who they want", and stuff like that. i don't pay it any mind, because i know that she wants me to react like i did in the past, and i'm not going to let her get that kind of reaction out of me. i guess i have to take her age into consideration too; she's 17...i'm 21, so maybe that has something to do with our problems? idk. all i know is that i'll never mention my beliefs around or to her, because everytime i do, there's an argument, and all she says is "you and i interpret the bible differently". i just don't think she believes that there's nothing wrong with her lifestyle, and if that's the case, then i'll leave it at that.i guess somethings are better left unsaid
to aubrey. i agree with you: as christians, we are supposed to love everyone, despite race, religion, orientation, lifestyle. it doesn't matter, and i believe that i do. although she's gay, i don;t treat her any different than i treat my straight friends. when it came to discussing God, and stuff like that, i just simply told her the reason why the church preached on the subject of homosexuality, and why i'm not a supporter of it. we had a falling out because we both became emotional during this; both yelling and wanting to be heard. i don't believe that's the way to go about things, especially one pertaining God and his word. she told me that after reading a book on how to deal with your sexuality and religion, that her beliefs were basically based on what the book was talking about. she also told me that she and i interpret the bible differently, which could be true. i just feel as if she somehow wants me to say i was wrong about what God says about that lifestyle. i can't say that. i'm not trying to come off as judgemental, i just want her to understand why it's displeasing to God. she has told me many times that she can't believe in what God says about people living a homosexual lifestyle not getting into heaven, and that she can't change her attraction to females, which i understand. by reading all these books, she's just looking for ways that say it's ok to live that lifestyle. idk. maybe what i told her was wrong. maybe i went about it wrong. i really don't feel as if i judged her, because i didn't tell her "you're going to hell'. i just told her that if people choose to continue to live in sin, they will end up in hell. i said that about all sin. if i was wrong, then i pray that God shows me that, because i had no intentions of sounding judgemental =[. *sigh*. because i don't support the homosexual lifestyle, she looks at me as a bad friend. what am i supposed to do now? tell her that i accept it? how can i without going against God?? you see why this is so hard for me?? its like i cant show my love for her unless i embrace her lifestyle liek teh rest of our friends does, and that's why i feel seperate from them. it's not that i dont love her, because i do!! if i didnt, i wouldnt tell her that God disapproves, and why he doesnt. i cant help but feel liek the culprit
aubrey, i just had to reread what you wrote about how its not our job to tell if homosexuals are living in sin or not. that's true, it's not. so should i have not said anything at all? should i just not care?
Netty, I've had this falling out thing happen before too.. I know how you feel, and it's not pretty. I'm 19... So i am kinda in the middle of you two, lol...I think you should care... It's never about simply not caring... You should care enough to tell your friend that you still love her even if she is gay. She needs to know that God still loves her if she is gay. Let's Try to reexamine the situation...If you were God ( i know that's weird) how do you think you would see her? Would you label her as "homosexual" that might burn in hell some day? Or would you see her as your creation- that is pleasing to you no matter what. Do you think God desires for people to burn in hell? Do you think that God is some judgmental being that is ready to smite her any second? You have said that her behavior is "Displeasing to God"... Do you really think God would say that to any of His creation? I mean lets think about it... Does anyone know what happens when we die? There is a lot of talk about heaven, hell, and whatever is in between. many people view this world as some kind of waiting room.... It's tough to say (even as a follower of Jesus) what happens next.Have you heard of the phrase "heaven on earth"?.. Honestly friend, I think that's part of what God wants.. I think God would want us to bring heaven onto earth- instead of trying to search for some far off distant land that some might go to and some might not. Look at this world... this Earth... Wouldn't you say it is rather hellish? Death, Destruction, etc.. Pretty crazy huh? Since the beginning of time, we have broken God's heart. Straying from Him and bringing death and all this other junk into a beautiful world.So what do you think God would want? Do you think God would want her to change her ways- just so that she can be "accepted" by society because she is so different? Just so she could be accepted by you? I would think that God would want you to bring heaven to her..What does that mean?.... I'll answer in this next post!
What does "that" mean about "this"?What can you say to make things right? I think it means instead of avoiding the conversation and wounding each other over and over, You need to talk about it. And not just another argument... let me explain...I think you should try to look for her forgiveness. I believe that God has already forgiven both of you for what you have said/done... He has simply forgotten about it.... So what are you doing about it?.. Honestly, God isn't going to make you do anything... He doesn't control people... it's called freewill.. He doesn't make us Love him... That's partially why we have Christians and non-Christians. That's why we ate the fruit from the tree in the first place. We were warned, but not stopped.So wouldn't the point be to be merciful and forgive her? It seems to me that you are kind of keeping her captive. You are kind of "putting words in God's mouth", ie. keeping her under the gun with her own lifestyle because of your own opinion. Would a loving God want you to set her free?Would a loving God want you to forgive her? I've heard it said that we should ask for forgiveness with every breath.God loves the outcasts of society, those who are forgotten, and the very least on the chain. God essentially loves everyone. But- There are roughly 2000 verses of scripture that talk about those people (they existed in biblical days too). This is where the "others" part comes in.So...would respecting the image of God in her mean accepting her as she is and not trying to play yourself off as a judgmental God? "i just want her to understand why it's displeasing to God." I don't think we should speak on behalf of God like that. If God really doesn't like it, he would let her know.When you respect the image of God in someone else, you are respecting the image of God in yourself. She doesn't have to forgive you, but when she sees that's what you (and God) would want, she probably will forgive you.The ground at the Cross is level for all of us.(That's why we have places like xxxChurch- People go talk to Porn stars [people] and tell them that Jesus loves them so very very much.)I know, it's tough... Everyone goes through this kind of stuff, and it all deals with forgiveness, because there are no saints. There is not a single person that lives without sin. At the onset- you had an opinion about her lifestyle... It was essentially an opinion- not a fact. Hopefully, your opinion has changed and you need to express that to her with civility. The healing will start with forgiveness and love- making things right between the two of you.. It's the only way any of this is going to be repaired. Let her go. Don't think that means "I dont care"...Because "i dont care" means that you are not willing to do anything to fix it- Which is untrue because you are at this very website looking for help. Part of forgiveness is letting people go- essentially setting them free from what you might have against them.(Jesus died for her too, ya know.)I don't think God would want either of you to carry this weight. We don't have to love everything, but I know that God calls us to love people [no matter what] and that's an undeniable fact.I pray that this has helped you a bit.. and you are still in my prayers friend, (phewwww)!Love,Aubrey
i do love her even though she's gay. i've told her that, but it still doesn't seem to change things. i'm kind of confused right now, because God says that that lifestyle is not ok, but i have other people saying that it is, so who am i supposed to believe? i know jesus died for her too, he died for everyone. when we repent, are we not supposed to turn away from the things that we're doing wrong in life? my question is, why would God condemn the homosexual lifestyle if he's ok with it? that's what i don't understand. me not being a supporter of the homosexual lifestyle does not mean i hate gay people, but i guess people don't see it that way. the reason why i say "let her go" is because God knows allllllll of the things we've been through. i prayed to God that if the people in my life (her and another friend), are the ones hendering me, to let me see that, and "let them go". as in remove them from my life. meaning continue to love them, but be distant, because it'll be what's best for me. she has also told me that my views on that lifestyle are "my opinions", and honestly i don't think that they are. what i told her about homosexuality is God's word, not mine.question: do you think the homosexual lifestyle is displeasing to God?i know that God hates sin, all sin, and the more we continue to sin, the worse off we'll be; it'll ultimately end in death. so what i don't understand is, if we're supposed to turn away from sin once we've excepted christ, why do some people automatically disregard homosexuality? is that not a sin? or is it just the lifestyle that's a sin.i believe that what my friend wants me to say is that it's ok to live a homosexual lifestyle: get married to the same sex, raise kids with your partner, go to a sperm bank to become get pregnant...and i can not do that. would you? or maybe it's me, reading God's word out of context. maybe a homosexual lifestyle is ok in the eyes of God. if i am wrong, i hope God reveals that to me.i agree, being a christian IS about love. but love alone will not get you into the kingdom of God. living according to God's word will, and by obeying him to the best of our abilitiy. if love was all that was needed to get to heaven, then even unbelievers would be able to enter. i think she knows God loves her, but i don't know for sure. shes said that if God loves everyone, why does he discriminate against gay marriage...
i'm sorry if all this sounds irrelevant. maybe i am being harsh. i'm concerned for her because she doesn't see a problem with what she's doing. she thinks that marrying her gf, and raising kids, and going to a sperm bank and all of that is ok with God. i just can't seem to fathom that =/. seriously, if i am reading the word of God incorrectly, i pray that he reveals that to me.
p.s. my using the word "accept" was used out of context. the better word would be support. i should accept her for who she is, even if i don't support the choices she makes. the same goes for her to me.also, what i said about displeasing God. no. i dont think hed say that. i do think he'd say that its a form of disobedience. when a person sins, theyre disobeying God. she's told me shes confident in her beliefs, so what more is there to say? i dont see why what i told her about homosexuality is labeled as my opinion. it says in the bible that those people will not inherit the kingdom of God. is this not true? this is were i'm left with doubts. i am wrong in my opinon, then i need to know.
ok. i had to re read what you wrote yet again. sorry for all of the post. i understand what you mean. what i said most likely did come off as judgemental, and i can understand why. i had no intentions of that. what i'm doing is drawing her away from God, and not drawing her near him. i don't need to do that. i need to let her know that i love her no matter what, and that i accept her. its just that easy, yet so hard. it's so hard, because in her mind it's okay to live that lifestyle. she doesn't believe that gay people need to turn away from that that lifestyle, that thats the way God make them. i'm dead honest when i say that i believe there's nothing that i can say =[. she won't listen to me, her mom, or anyone else. only the books that are telling her that it's ok. i dont know what to do!!! i want it all to go away, i want to not care, because it's easier...i know that sounds selfish, and that i cant give up on her, but shes told me she doesnt want my help. and thats when i came to her calmly about the situation. what do i do now?? im sorry that im putting all my problems on other people, and i know that this is something i should deal with on my own =[. im not looking to make enemies with anyone.
There ya go :D..I used to "not care" alot... now, suddenly caring alot is so much more difficult... But I think it's what Jesus would want. Letting her go might also mean not being so involved with her.... I got in a falling out with this one punk about stealing music. It was the exact same arument set up that you are having! I was the one stealing music (via internet) and he was claiming that it was a sin and God hates me because of that. He said that I wasnt a Christian... Which really pissed me off..I had to eventually forgive him and let him go. Letting him go for me meant not holding what he said to me against him... which was really tough. I used to be decent friends with the kid, and now I'm not involved with him so much.aaaanndd.... we have to reevaluate what sin means... Isn't that what Jesus came for? Not so that we could just keep on sinning and "not care".. but we could have the slate wiped clean... If the ground is level at the foot of the cross, then I think the Jesus didn't condemn homosexuals or the sexually confused of his time (yeah they were around then too-the unichs)... He didn't condemn anyone. He came to save them.. If he came back today he would probably be hanging out with everyone that society has hurt.I dont think you should wish for it all to go away... you are obviously learning something- whether it is difficult or not.. you should never try to shy away from an experience like this no matter how painful it is.Try rereading what I posted earlier as one long post... like I said... forgiveness is key- especially face to face. Still praying,Love,Aubrey
thank you so much aubrey! i have learned A LOT from what you wrote =]. i feel so much better about the situation now. i now realize that it's God's job to judge and out job to love. she's a great person, despite all of the things we went through. we both were at fault, and we need a resolution. i'm going to tell her exactly what i feel about her: that i love her, accept her, and that i'll always be there for her as a friend. to cast her aside wouldn't be good, but at the same time, me being involved with them drinking wouldn't be either, lol. i just want her to know that even if we aren't close friends anymore that i still love her, and i didn't mean to judge her. i'll say all of this to her face to face. hopefully everything works out fine =].once again thank you, i have learned a lot, and i'll let you know how things go
Aubrey, you talk about not "putting words in God's mouth", and then you come out with statements like these:You have said that her behavior is "Displeasing to God"... Do you really think God would say that to any of His creation?…I think God would want us to bring heaven onto earth- instead of trying to search for some far off distant land that some might go to and some might not. …I don't think God would want either of you to carry this weight. It seems to me you have a very narrow view of what it means to 'love' someone. You talk about Jesus like he lived some kind of perpetual hippy lovefest. Did you know Jesus also rebuked his closest friends? Yes, and he even told people to stop sinning. Jesus preached forgiveness and repentance — not just forgiveness like so many people like to pretend.Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?""No one, sir," she said."Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."(John 8:10-11)
lax, you have some very good points, and so does everyone else who replied to this post. my intentions are not to condemn anyone. i only read her a scripture from the bible about the homosexual lifestyle, and she flipped and said that was my opinion. after she flipped, then i flipped. maybe that wasn't such a good idea to say anything. idk. since everyone else gave me their input on what i should basically do, what do you think would be the best approach? i don't seem to handle situations all that well, as you can see. if i did, i wouldn't have this problem.
From my reading of the Bible, we should confront our Christian brothers and sisters if we become aware of sin in their lives that they appear to be ignoring. We should do this out of love for them and the desire to see God's name honored by all believers.Jesus outlined a process for this:If your brother sins against you*, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. (Matthew 18:15-17)(* Some manuscripts do not include 'against you'.)I'm not sure exactly what Jesus means by 'treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector', but it's interesting to consider that Jesus was actually much harsher with the religious leaders than he was the pagans and tax collectors. Perhaps the point is this: we shouldn't waste time trying to argue with someone who doesn't want to listen. If someone refuses to listen to sound advice, let them go. Think about it… Do we ever read an account in the gospels of Jesus chasing after someone who didn't want to listen? No, he spoke the truth to those who came to him, and he let people walk away when they didn't like what they heard.
I would so much agree with Lax here (one more time).
One thing love always is, is that it is true. Luther said, "i don't want comforting i want the truth". and that was is love also. So that you have a lesbian friend who live in a sin, (as in accepting a sin, and not dealing with it) it's your job as brother to mention it to her, maybe she didn't knew. and there you have said the truth, based on love. it's then her time to react, either listen to you and repent or ignoring the truth, and keeping ignoring the spirits calling on her.
and if you still are unsecure about the gay lesbian thing, the listen here. God created Adam and eve, not adam and george or eve and jennifer. But God created those who happen to have homosexual iddentities, and he still love them, but he don't love there sinfull actions, as he don't like me stealing.
But the most importing thing to remenber, not just in this situation, but in the whole mess in your life, (which i by the way are into also right now.) that is that, you don't have to worry about what is right or wrong, what is the best thing for you and your friends and relationships, or what feels the best. because God have givin you the answer long time ago, that you should follow him. so every action that you consider doing, but are letting you go the oppisite way of going nearer God, that is not the best way for either you or your friends. maybe it looks like the best or feels like the best, but it isn't hte best on the last day. Maybe exactly that one of you friends got confronted with the bibel truth, by their best friend, maybe that was the thing that made the change in their life 20 years later.
Turn towards God, he is your answer
I suppose I must quote myself.... "And please, this is all out of the Love for Christ.. Most people would retaliate with a bunch of Biblical jargon that is taken far out of context.. We wouldn't have the Bible if it wasn't for God and His people to love."...And according to this website.... Jesus loves sin.... God loves sin... "Jesus Loves Sin City"...If it wasn't for sin, then what is the ultimate destination for Jesus? Is he then only a "good rabbi"??and Lax, you used the following quotes."You have said that her behavior is "Displeasing to God"... Do you really think God would say that to any of His creation?…I think God would want us to bring heaven onto earth- instead of trying to search for some far off distant land that some might go to and some might not. …I don't think God would want either of you to carry this weight. " Friend, those are what I call conclusions.. An interpretation, if you will... I was merely trying to communicate what the Bible says in context, and straight to the point to try and help Netty... Jewish culture did believe in making things right (because they obviously weren't at that time, and they still aren't.).. It's like we have the Bible, but there is no "moral" to the story... I have yet to find in the Bible where it says "now, what can we learn from the story of Job?? (or the gospels for that matter"... It's like going to the movies, and then walking out and saying "now what can we learn from Rambo?" God knows that we are intelligent beings... I think He leaves it up to us to study His word to draw conclusions (like I tried to do for Netty). The text is like a gem held up to the light. Light refracts within the gem and makes a different pattern, and no two patterns are the same.In Hebrew, repentence means "שוב shuv"... Which means "to turn"... or, "change of mind and heart", or, "change of consciousness"... "think differently"... just some thoughts. Try looking at that and fitting it into your references to repentence. *I am a Psychology major, and I'm pretty sure I understand the thought processes behind your posts and your reasoning.*Just because we are Christians doesn't mean that we are sinless. I can't find a single person that isn't sinless. But, we are free from sin. It doesn't bind us, and God doesn't hold anything against us. And I have to believe that is true for all of us, and Netty's friend as well. I don't want to argue, I just wanted to clear some things up. And yes, ultimately, Netty should turn to God for answers, and God can choose whatever vessel He pleases. If Netty gets any answers that he finds acceptable, they wouldn't essentially be coming from me (or any of us for that matter). "What else me but You?"Love,Aubrey
I don't want to argue with you either Aubrey because… well heck, you are a 'Psychology major' with a capital P and all, and I… well I only have a bachelor degree in whatever… So you keep on quoting yourself and I'll keep quoting scripture.aubreywithoutYou said: Friend, those are what I call conclusions.. An interpretation, if you will... I was merely trying to communicate what the Bible says in context…Ah, there it is… the magic word that covers over all wrongs… context. I've said it before on this forum… all you have to do is throw out the word 'context' and you can make scripture say whatever you want. Where's your scripture? Where's your evidence that God isn't displeased with sinful behavior? Where is your evidence that God doesn't hold anything against anyone? Where is this context you speak of? No… You've spoken over 2600 words on this thread, and as far as I can tell not a single verse of scripture. I don't mean to knock anyone else because they're young, but you sound like a typical nineteen-year-old-know-it-all with a partly completed psychology degree. I thought I knew it all when I was nineteen too. You got one thing right though… Repentance is literally a change of mind. It's a decision to turn away from sin and turn towards God, and it's what Jesus commands us to do. I'm honestly not sure how you you go about 'fitting it into' your theology. You seem to be preaching grace without repentance, happiness without godly sorrow. By all means, defend yourself if you feel unjustly accused.aubreywithoutYou said: Jesus loves sin.... God loves sin...That is one of the most satanic lies I have ever seen written by anyone on this board. God loves the sinner, but he hates the sin.Do you detect a bit of anger in this post? You're dead right. It does make me angry to see the truth of God's word being pissed on like this.
First, Lax, to clarify something you were confused about earlier...I'm not sure exactly what Jesus means by 'treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector', but it's interesting to consider that Jesus was actually much harsher with the religious leaders than he was the pagans and tax collectors. Jews ostracized pagans. Even the Samaritans, who historically were of Jewish lineage, and worshiped God (albeit in a tradition not recognized by the Jews as orthodox), were considered as unclean as the pagans were. For a Jew to associate onself with a pagan would mean banishment from their community. It was tradition for Jews to not even acknowledge the presence of a pagan in their community. Jesus meant in this passage that, if one was to be informed about their sin multiple times but make no effort to repent and turn away from sin, then turn away from them and treat them as you would typically treat a pagan. (He is not saying treat pagans as you normally do, but rather, if a sinner chooses to sin and makes no effort to change, then turn away from him.)And the tax collectors were treated almost as bad as the pagans, with one exception...you had to pay the tax collector.
I am a Psychology major, and I'm pretty sure I understand the thought processes behind your posts and your reasoning.*Hmm, sorry for intruding...I only took Psych 110, so I probably don't know as much as you do, but......Didn't your Psych 101 professor ever warn you never to publically assert an understanding of the human psyche, nor ever try and classify / diagnose / counsel anyone, until you were a licensed professional? Because mine did. As the Greeks would say, you are most likely a "sophomore," or... sophos: wise moros: foolish -- quick to act without proper thought -- lacking judgement
Hey Pollux. Thanks for the extracurricular information about that verse.If I remember correctly I got a bit cranky with you last time round… Am I forgiven for that? I think I get grumpier every time I come back to the board. Is it just me or is it the board?
Sorry, friends...After every conversation I've had on the net... it usually comes to one conclusion.. and that's communication, and how the internet probably isn't the best place to try and communicate the Gospel, or any form of it- mine or yours. Interpretation, translation, etc etc... the list goes on. Pollux... Honestly, in terms of psychology... I don't agree with half of the claims that some of my professors make... and they probably did warn me of that... Thank you for reminding me... just trying to get some form of credibility... who am I to say anything at all?Lax..... "I thought I knew it all when I was nineteen too." .. You know what? the more I talk to people, whether it be on the internet, or in reality, the more I realize that I really don't know anything at all. I know enough to know that I know too much.The description of sophomore is quite accurate... but I guess I'd rather be a wise fool that doesn't judge anyone at all. There are over 2000 verses of scripture that talk about helping those that are in need... something much mightier than my mere "2600" words in this thread. So I don't think there is a single thing wrong with trying to help Netty... and I can't see what help you are doing except being overly critical of what I said... and not even trying to correct me in any kind of civilized manner... I would have rather heard that than anything else that you said.How did it come to all of this?! Please, forgive me for "pissing" on God's word...--I didn't want to bombard Netty with scripture (something he used to actually hurt his relationship), I was just trying to share some conclusions that might help him--Thank you,Aubrey
I have no problem with you or anyone else trying to help people. What I do have a problem with is people distorting the truth of God's word. Why? Because I believe the truth has the power to set people free. Ignoring sin sets nobody free. It's just a temporary relief from the guilt that should be leading them to repentance and genuine freedom.There are people I dearly love who have been hurt by lies… And who knows who else is reading these threads? You don't need to 'bombard' anyone with scripture, but if you're going to call yourself a Christian and talk about what 'God would say' or what 'God would want', then you better start backing it up with something more authoritative than a partly completed psychology degree.
man. i didn'r mean for everyone to get so worked up over anything =/. thanks for all of your help, and words, as well as scripture. you all have gave me something to think about, which is great. i love my friend dearly, but i do feel it't time to step back and let God do His work. He's been telling me this for over a year, and now i'm listening. took awhile though. to lax. i loved what you wrote:Perhaps the point is this: we shouldn't waste time trying to argue with someone who doesn't want to listen. If someone refuses to listen to sound advice, let them go. Think about it… Do we ever read an account in the gospels of Jesus chasing after someone who didn't want to listen? No, he spoke the truth to those who came to him, and he let people walk away when they didn't like what they heardEXACTLY!! that's what i needed to hear! it's a hard thing to do; it hurts. baaad. so bad, because this girl used to be one of my closest friends. now our relationship is "eh". she's already told me that she's "100% confident" in her beliefs and in her relationship with her gf, so there's not much else i can say. i'm not gonna force her to listen. i think that's where i went wrong the first time; i came off as forceful, when i don't think that was my intention.to aubrey, you're right. my using scripture did hurt me and my friends relationship, but i don't think i'd change anything. not quoting scripture at least. i think i did the right thing. did i do it the right way? definately not. when my friend expressed the feelings she had about continuing to hide her sexuality from the church she said "i wont back down for no one", and i replied "not even for God?". she walked out the door. to this day it feels as if those words were NOT spoken by me, because after they were spoken i was left dumbfounded. idk what that was all about, but i do know that was the first time i verbalized my feelings towards the situation.
oh, and to clear things up, i'm a girl hehe. if that matters.but yeah. lax, if you could, would you give me some scriptures to read that focuses on love, friendships, repentance, living a life that pleases God...generally anything. i read the bible (not nearly as much as i should), but am kind of stuck on what to read.
A. If you're stuck, do what I do…B. Start with these verses…C. And finish with these ones.
Netty52988 I am praying for you. I pray for strength to overcome. I pray wisdom and words to speak. I pray for awesome God fearing christain friends to come along side you. I pray God's goodness and grace into and for your life. I pray peace for you and perseverance as you step out in faith and continue on the path and journey that God has set before you In Jesus nametake carep.s. I am also a girl:) I was wondering if there were other girls here...so thanks:)
Hi Netty,Forgive me for weighing in on this thread at such a late stage, but I am afraid I am here less and less lately, and often only look in when Lax cracks and comments on a thread. When that happens, there is usually some interesting debate that follows, and occasional fireworks. Though it doesn't sound it, this is a compliment to Lax, for we know that where the truth is proclaimed, the world will respond, and usually in a negative fashion.So why am I throwing in to this discussion? Well, when I read Lax's extremely helpful direction toward scripture, I felt the need to provide a little more (or less, if you're talking volume...) Don't get me wrong, Lax's advice is good - it is an admirable goal to endeavour to read the entire bible, however, I get the feeling that you are looking for something a little more specific. And I can't help but get excited when someone is keen to get into God's word.Please don't misjudge me as any kind of expert, I am merely a seeker like you desiring to share some things that I have found (and I don't have a Psych major, nor even a bachelors degree in whatever, the only credentials I will give myself is that I usually agree wholeheartedly with Lax...)Anyway, into the Word...I feel that a good place to start would be the books of 1, 2 and 3 John. Some excellent stuff about God's love, and also about our response to that - some of the changes that will be evident in the life of a believer.Also good are the books of 1 & 2 Corinthians, particularly 1. Some practical advice for the early church in Corinth that is as true today as it was then.Lately though, I have been directed more and more to ensure a solid foundation in the basics of my faith, and when you break down what it is we do, it all comes back to Jesus. So if you are stuck for what to read, read a gospel. I have always been a fan of Luke, bu lately have been really enjoying John. It focusses a little more on the divine nature of God, and might be a little more what you are looking for at the moment. Not sure, but it still a good place to start.And if you want to get back to basics even more, Romans is also a great book.And one final piece of advice. Beware the cut and paste approach to scripture (Please note the use of the word beware, not avoid) This is the practice of picking one small piece of scripture and drawing a lesson from it without any frame of reference. Yes, I am talking context (should bring a smile to Lax's face) But don't get me wrong, there is a fine line here and I don't want to discourage you from reading even a small part of the bible. Daily devotionals often pick one chapter from a book and draw wisdom from it. Nothing wrong with that, and it is amazing how the lessons so often apply to right where you are at. God uses that. However, it is also extremely valuable to gain a thorough understanding of God and His word, and to do that, you can't beat getting into an entire book, or letter. It is even more helpful to gain some background on a book before reading it. I say this because it has been my approach lately. I am currently reading through a book called "The Untold Story of the New Testament Church" (Frank Viola) which includes a read through of the entire NT. The book follows Paul's missionary journeys planting the early church, and is amazing in it's detail. It gives a real window of understanding into the NT. Really good stuff to give a great overview and thorough understanding of the NT books and why they were written (and included as part of the bible) And it is not just a historical book, it goes into the struggles that early christians faced, and it is amazing sometimes how little we have changed in 2000 years :-)I know I said that was my final piece of advice, but I just remembered another book that has been great to read in my journey. "The Jesus I Never Knew" (Phillip Yancey).That is all. For now. I promise.May God bless you in your journey with him.Love in Christ,Mike.PS Don't forget to pray before opening God's word. It is a powerful thing to do, and God will open up your mind to understand it so much more if you ask Him to.
lol. i'll take your advice lax. it'll take me awhile, but i'll learn to have patience.thanks for the prayer purity =]. it's nice to know there are people out there that are willing to help others that are going through some tough times. especially when regarding faithand to mike. thanks a buuuunch! i've stumbled across those books in the bible, and i've read some. it's even better now that i know i'm going in the right direction which i'm excited about! =]. i think i'm gonna check out those books you mentioned too, btwp.s. i hadn't even thought about praying before reading the bible =/. thanks for letting me in on that, and thanks to everyone who gave me some useful information
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