GENERAL: Wet Dreams Clarified
  • BloodyOrangesBloodyOranges February 2008

    Hi guys,I'm just wondering. I know that in the other forums on this topic, people mentioned that what you fill in your head in the day, can be the reasons for explicit dreams. What do you think though? How frequent do you get them abstaining, and do you think that God can use them to help in your fight for purity?Thanks. 

  • pryzefighterpryzefighter February 2008

    i believe its demonic, and heres why when i pray and bind them up in the name of jesus they stop. Also you have to look at it like this, if this is of God then it should bring me closer to God and not the problem that takes me away from Him. Its a demonic seed that is implimented to bring you back into bondage. in the past i have experienced wet dreams when right before i went to sleep and the whole day i was in prayer and worship. So i know it cant be what i was doing during the day especially since i went to sleep praying. Believe me if you bind them up in prayer and command them to stop in the name of Jesus they will.

  • Jack8Jack8 February 2008

    I think they are far from being demonic. I believe it's a normal process: Your mind goes through his recent experiences and sorts them into the right places, trying to be "at ease" again. Much like a hard drive defragmentation. Watch an action movie before you sleep = dream of a chase sequenceplay poker all night = dream of cards, money, peoplewatch porn = dream of sexual encounters.There may be a more difficult pattern to it, this was very simplified. Usually, I get sexual dreams about half a week or so after I watched porn for the last time. May also be the mind trying to produce some excitement himself that he didn't get during the day. But demonic, I don't think so. 

  • crawlingrunnercrawlingrunner February 2008

    Demonic?! Well lemme ask you this...Unless someone is married, how are they supposed to release sperm that is built up in our body, because our body never stops making it. I truly believe it is the outlet God has given us so that we DON'T have to mastrubate. I view it like this, menstruation in the Old Testament times for women was described as a "dirty" time but not sinful. They of course can't stop that from happening. Well, guys wet dreams to me are like a unclean time. Not sinful, just not clean, but we have to get rid of old sperm somehow. Anyways, I have seen this opinion in several places. Yes your subconscious can pull from past experiences, aka porn you've looked at, but I believe that over time our mind won't use those experiences any longer.

  • Jack8Jack8 February 2008

    cr, kind of agree, but pollution is not the only way our body gets rid of the sperm. There are also other mechanism that 'disassemble' the unused sperm. 

  • crawlingrunnercrawlingrunner February 2008

    This is true, I have heard that it can be emptied into the bladder as well, but as far as I know, these are just secondary to "nocturnal emissions" aka wet dreams. This is just what I have learned, read and believe. I am open to more, but I haven't seen anything about them being demonic until now...I challenge anyone who is reading this to research and not jump to conclusions. Also to pray about it before you dismiss it as something hated by God. This is an especially difficult battle for young men that are not married (not to diminish it all for married fellahs!) but the absence of mastrubation hits us more on a physical level...if you know what I mean. I pray for all you struggling!

  • netomejianetomejia February 2008

    Well, this is just my personal experience...I've been free from porn and masturbation for 7 months. I have had 7 wet dreams since then. I am now considering that WET DREAM is a wrong term, at least for me, since it mixes two terms, the WET part, and the DREAM part.You'll see: I have had 5 nocturnal emissions without the dreams, and I have considered them such a blessing from God, just in the right time to prevent me from sin. They were just the physical sensation and process, and somehow I felt thankful with God, and yes, clean in mind.But I had two other emissions derivated from sinful dreams. One included a relative and the other was also an homosexual dream; I explain this because I am far from considering them "normal". They looked like the kind of hardcore porn I escaped from. After these emissions I felt very unclean. A male friend of mine explained to me that a certain demonic oppression might be involved in the DREAMS part, you'll see, Satan would never rest to corrupt a normal body process designed by God himself with these kind of thoughts. My conclusion: EMISSIONS and SEXUAL DREAMS are not the same thing, even tough they can happen at the same time. One is the legitimate and natural way that God designed to let us men get rid of semen. The other is a corruption of a mind that can (yes it can) be constantly clean, even in our sleep. And yes, this corruption might be an external demonic oppression.Ernesto

  • I think you can have a wet dream and not think of a women,  just be arrosed and go off. I think if it happens when you are dreaming of having sex with women, then something is wrong. Sperm has to go somewhere, The Law of Conservation of Mass for us science people, lol.

  • mephiboshethmephibosheth February 2008

    You are responsible for the things you are responsible for.  If you are filling your mind with garbage, then stop.  Your body may or may not continue with the nocturnal emissions.  If you are doing your part, then you are morally clean.Different people have different experiences in this regard because our bodies are different.  Some have them frequently, others rarely, others never.  Mine stopped after physical maturity.The notion that wet dreams are demonic is foolishness.  If you are inviting the sinful dreams, then you sin in the invitation.  If you are not inviting the wet dreams by your waking thoughts then you are not responsible for involuntary dreams, but demons cannot force you to sin in your thoughts.  Those are habits of your physical mind which will gradually fade as your brain learns new mental habits and exercises different imaginative paths as you sleep.  Pray for the Lord to assist in training your mind for new thoughts, and stop feeding the old habits.A recovering drunk is not afflicted by demons as he goes through withdrawal.  The temptations to drink need not be introduced by demons.  He has allowed his physical body to make powerful habits and behavioral expectations.  The body and mind must be retrained.  Yes, demons are real and deadly dangerous.  But most people need no demonic invitation to sin.  I'm sure I don't....

  • crawlingrunnercrawlingrunner February 2008

    Netomejia, thank you, you explained it better than I did, I agree with you and as well as those last two :)

  • prayerwarriormanprayerwarriorman February 2008

    i agree with pryzfighter i believe its demonic, like he said if you bound it in the name of Jesus theywill stop, if they were from God thenwhy would you have to bound them in the name of Jesus , also God wouldn't put an image of sexuality in your head when he wants us to live free of that(unless your married, which in that case would only consist of you and your wife) "And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and MINDS through Christ Jesus"

  • yes demonic because although we need no help sinning, the devil isn't going to let us off easy when he could be making it harder for the children of god and his precious favored creation. yes bio, because yes there is a need to release the sperm.some times the wet part of the dream is very short, almost a coincedince that it happened at the time it did.so i believe it is both demonic and biological. oh and with the way our minds work, the devil only has to plant the seed, throw out the carrot and in our subconcious it takes route and our dream goes somewhere it should not have gone.

  • pryzefighterpryzefighter February 2008

    First of all you can have a nocturnal emission without a demoic dream. But also i find it hard to see pornographic dreams as sent by God especially since they draw you away from Him. Also if we let evil thoughts polute us, when we sleep that is what we get but somtimes these dreams occur even if you keep your mind pure for extensive amounts of time. Also look in your heart, why would you want those images in your head at night why wouldn't you want God to speak to you as He did to Jacob with the dream of the ladder? (genisis 28:12)Also you have to look at this, one quater of Jesus' ministry was deliverence and casting out demons. This is why alot of people are not free because there is no deliverence (ie spiritual warfare, breaking curses and casting out demons). people parish for a lack of knowledge (hosea 4:6)! If Jesus cast out demons then why dont we?  ill tell you why its because we havent renewed out minds or proven the will of God in our lives!(Romans 12:2 NASB) And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.you prove it by doing it and trust me God deliverd me from drugs and alcohol and alot of times it is a demon the causes alcoholics to be driven to these things yes we have free will but if we willfully committ sin there is no sacrifice for these things and demons can enter in legaly. That how you pick up a demon. so if you invite demonic thought or even allow them to slide without casting them down you give satan rights to visit you in the night!2 Corinthians 10:3-5 MKJV(3) For though walking about in flesh, we do not war according to flesh.(4) For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds,(5) pulling down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought into the obedience of Christ;remember the first signs of a chrisitian are casting out demons! which means we can tread on snakes and scorpians and over all the power of the enemy  and even make those dreams stop God always gives us the right to choose, i hope we will choose to fight.example say "in the name of Jesus we bind every thought, seed, dream and plan of lust, pornography, masterbation, rape, prostitution and anything that would be used by the enemy or connected to satan and his kingdom, we command it to stop and return no more in the name of Jesus. remember "Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."(Matthew 18:18 NASB)"Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you.(Luke 10:19 NASB)

  • Hew+FullerHew Fuller February 2008

    Are you saying that we don't cast out demons because we don't have enough faith?

  • notanymikenotanymike February 2008

    Perhaps for single guys at least emissions are a sign for that person should be married, even if they are pure in mind...

  • pryzefighterpryzefighter February 2008

    Hew Fuller, sorry i wasnt done yet, but no i am saying we as the people of God suffer because of what we dont know and do notanymike: its the dream not the emmission, the image or immagination of it that causes sin (when you are conscious at least), if satan can get a seed that will cause you to drift then he can get you to backslide. like drifting in a car around a corner, too much and you go off the edge. i hope this all makes sense, its my hope that people will be set free like i was it helped me out a whole lot.  

  • Hew+FullerHew Fuller February 2008

    LOL    I guess you weren't done yet. :)

  • very well presented. very convincing.

  • mephiboshethmephibosheth February 2008

    Pryze, you're wandering into some dangerous ground here.  You are trying to tell us that many or most of our problems can be directly attributed to the actions of demons, as if the corruption of our minds and bodies are the result of external forces.  This is counter to the revelation of Scripture which tells us very clearly that the heart of man is desperately wicked, and deceitful above all things (Jer. 17:8).  In Genesis 6:4, God judged the wickedness of heart of man - that the thoughts of his heart were evil all the time. In Matthew 12:34, Jesus pointed out that it is out of the overflow of the heart that the mouth speaks.  And how does the mouth speak?  Read James.The danger here is that you can trade repentance and genuine "renewing of the mind" for some witch-doctoring.  We do not live in a world of spirits buzzing around our head like gnats, constantly biting us like fleas and requiring swats from our great spiritual fly-swatter.  There is an unseen spiritual world, but our thoughts are to be devoted to the Spirit God has put inside us, to learn how to better hear His Voice and obey His Word.  The primary hinderance to this is our own flesh, which has been corrupted by the Fall and has not yet been resurrected as our spirit has been.  Our first opponent is ourselves, not some demon.So yes.  Demons are real and dangerous.  But no.  We should not be preoccupied with demons.  Demons are not an imminent danger for the children of God.  We can be tempted, but we cannot be unduly influenced.  I must strenuously object to one thing in particular you said that was flat out anti-biblical.  "we willfully committ sin there is no sacrifice for these things and demons can enter in legaly. That how you pick up a demon. so if you invite demonic thought or even allow them to slide without casting them down you give satan rights to visit you in the night!" (sic)I cannot express how offensive this is.  Read again that passage in Matthew 12 where Jesus expels the demon.  He asks rhetorically, "how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man?"  In the case of a believer, who dwells in your house/body but the Spirit of God?  Who should we imagine can bind the Spirit of God?Worse!  You say, "[when] we willfully commit sin there is no sacrifice for these things."  No sacrifice?  If Christ's blood did not also cover willful sins, I am already damned.  What good is your prayer for the man who has sinned beyond redemption?  Or do you suggest that some sins can be atoned outside the blood of Christ?  I pray that's not your meaning.Bury your mind in the Word of God and meditate on that.  Rely on God to deal with that which is unseen.  Do not toy with foreign spirits; do not give the devil a foothold.  If the devil cannot persuade us that he does not exist, he might just persuade us to become obsessed with him.  He is desperate to remove our eyes from God and the work He would have us do.We are not the ghostbusters.  This first sign of a Christian is absolutely not casting out demons.  The first sign of a Christian is a new creation.

  • pryzefighterpryzefighter February 2008

    Meph... here is the scripture, its the principleFor if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,(Hebrews 10:26 NASB) you also said its the heart and that im trading true repentance but not so there is three parts to every person since we are made in God image (Gen 1:26, 1 Thess 5:23)its a three fold cord that the enemy uses, the flesh can become emopwered by a demon but it cant touch our spirit unless the Holy Spirit is not there. Also like i said before prove it by doing it (Rom 12:2), i have been doing deliverence on people for some time and have seen many set free but also deliverence without dicipline is just another cycle, its only in part to yes renewing your mind and repentance. But to say we dont need to deal with our enemy  is nonsense. Jesus went around casting out demons he told us to do so(this was one quater of Jesus' ministry), He comissioned the 12 disciples to do it... These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: "Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.' "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give. (Matthew 10:5-8 NASB) and the 70 as well... The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name." And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning. "Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you. (Luke 10:17-19 NASB)

  • pryzefighterpryzefighter February 2008

    If in the book of acts the church used this ministry, what right do we have to ignore it. If demons are not a threat then why did Jesus even give us authority, why tell us to cast demons out. Why does the scripture tell us to... Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. (1 Peter 5:8 NASB)What about... For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. (2 Corinthians 10:3-4 NASB)also what about the people of isreal who were demonicly influenced they were Jews and yet they had problems with demons, if Jesus delt with all this then why arent we?Remember...these are the sign to follow believers "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." (Mark 16:17-18 NASB) study the scriptures the scriptures (objectivly) to see if what i say is true with prayer and an open heartNow these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. (Acts 17:11 NASB)God loves you and so do I, Grace and peace to you my friend

  • pryzefighterpryzefighter February 2008

    my comment was too long for one entry

  • GirlConfusedGirlConfused February 2008

    I just wanted to add how thankful I am that we have yet another "wet dreams" thread.  I mean they are so very complex and so very very difficult to understand.  I mean you go to sleep, wake up and you're thinking wow!  *yawn  Why doesn't someone guy just come out and say it... He thinks his wet dreams are cool.  We know that's what you guys are thinking anyway. 

  • selfordselford February 2008

    Ya I admit that wet dreams are great.  I see them as a gift from God.  He knows that we need a release and it's like he's saying "here ya go, this is for being so faithful and for relying on me to get you through this."  The only problem I have with them is that they bring up things to think about during the rest of the day.  However, those thoughts just need to be thrown out by God's mighty power and you need to cover yourself daily with Jesus's Blood.- Steve

  • mephiboshethmephibosheth February 2008

    Firstly, as GC requested, I'll admit that WD were enjoyable... sorta.  I don't miss, however, stealth laundry runs in my parents' house.But here come the guns...  Pryze, you're mishandling Scripture, and you're doing it in a way that emasculates the saving grace of the gospel.Most important bit first: you deal grievous violence to Hebrew 10:26. "Receiving the knowledge of truth" is not the same thing as repenting to salvation or being "born again."  Even the demons have "knowledge," and shudder!  But if you receive the knowledge of truth and persist in rejecting it - as evidenced by unrepentant behaviour - then you cannot be saved.  Why?  Because there is only one Way, Truth and Life, and you have rejected it.  According to my study Bible, the word "willfully" in the Greek indicates habitual deliberate intention.  That's an attitude of committed rebellion.  This verse is addressing those who have been given the knowledge of the gospel but who have chosen to reject it and continue to live in rebellion to God.  It does not say that if you have become a child of God, know something is wrong, and choose to do it anyway, you can never be forgiven and somehow God divorces you. I am not even going to begin to list the contra-indicating Scriptures.You also do not begin to address the problems I asked about.  Why, if a person has committed a sin of which he cannot be forgiven, are you proposing to deliver that person from a demon?  He cannot be forgiven!  He is already damned!You say that a demon can "empower" the flesh of a believer, but not our spirit.  Please give me a Scriptural reference for that idea.  You have not yet answered Jesus' metaphor of the strong man's house.You say this method of "deliverance" is proved by your experience.  This is not a reliable proof.  Other people claim to have been cured of the same things through trancendental meditation, and I do not imagine that the spiritual virtue of TM has been proven.You say something that reveals a great misapprehension of basic truths: "also what about the people of isreal who were demonicly influenced they were Jews and yet they had problems with demons, if Jesus delt with all this then why arent we?" (sic)  What is a Jew except a man descended from Jacob?  Why do you equate the spiritual protection afforded to a believer in Christ to a random unbelieving Jew?  The difference between the believer and an unbelieving Jew is the indwelling of the Spirit of God.You quote: "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. Freely you received, freely give. (Matthew 10:5-8 NASB)" I presume then that you also regularly raise the dead and heal the sick?You quote: "they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them" from Mark 16.  I suppose you also are immune to poison?I propose to you that your understanding of these passages is obviously faulty even in your own experience.  If you really believe these in the way you suggest, you should be clearing out our hospitals rather than wasting your time convincing me.I appreciate your love, and I have no antagonism toward you except insofar as you promote demonstrably false interpretations of the Word of God.  I hope you do take these hard questions seriously and resolve to answer them through a more comprehensive reading of the Scriptures.  Don't take my word for it.  Go find some corpses to raise, and test the truth of your beliefs.  Please don't test them by drinking poison.

  • hey GC! not all wet dreams are cool! i've had a very unsexy one that involved a costume party and a large fish. don't ask, i still don't know and think it was only a coincidence i went off. i don't think any are cool as they tend to stick around longer than my fun action dreams. which really pisses me off.

  • GirlConfusedGirlConfused February 2008

    Is it REALLY a wet dream if your awake?  I don't think so.  Babe that's a whole 'nother thread!  Or were you actually dreaming of Nemo?

  • PolluxPollux February 2008

    Actually, from my perspective, wet dreams weren't really all that much fun.  Many of my dreams growing up weren't anything sexual at all.  I still remember the first dream that led to a wet dream.  I just drempt that my brother was trapped in some sort of old submarine-ish-looking container, that these two kidnappers were standing there holding him hostage, and I couldn't rescue him.  Then I woke up, and felt something really sticky in my shorts.  It wasn't immensly satisfying by any means...rather, it felt really weird.Even now, they're just an inconvenience...but please do understand, relative to what women go through month-by-month, they're really nothing to complain about.

  • notanymikenotanymike February 2008

    Pollux-you do know you're aiding the freudian cause by the "submarine-ish" bit to your dream....unless you can actually recall the description of the container that it didn't look like something silmilar to what a submarine resembles...

  • GirlConfusedGirlConfused February 2008

    NotAnyMike, LOL!!!!!!Pollux, "relative to what women go through month-by-month"... it's really nothing.  It's not the long drawn out 7 day thing that you read about.  It's nothing.

  • carecare February 2008

    Hey GC, Not all women are the same, in this respect.~care

  • carecare February 2008

    Hey neto,  Cool to see you here.  Haven't seen you in a while.  Stop by my thread.  I miss seeing you there. blessings,~care Hi Jack8,  I haven't seen you around for a while.  Cool to see you again.  Stop by my thread when you get a chance.  Miss seeing you there.Grace and Peace...~care

  • TJCamroTJCamro February 2008

    Here is what my mentor from Setting Captives Free sent to me when I asked about Wet Dreams and I will tell you this made total sense to me.  Dear Travis,   Thanks for asking about wet dreams.  Here are a couple of responses.  First is my own:   Deu 23:9 "When you are in camp in time of war, you are to avoid anything that would make you ritually unclean. Deu 23:10 If a man becomes unclean because he has had a wet dream during the night, he is to go outside the camp and stay there. Deu 23:11 Toward evening he is to wash himself, and at sunset he may come back into camp.   Travis, none of those men could avoid their dreams, so they became ritually unclean fairly often.  They had wet dreams either because they weren't married or because their wives weren't with them at that time...soldiers on a mission.   That assures us that we can have wet dreams and still be o.k. It is not a sin. Scriptures say that plainly.  Those soldiers were given permission.  Their being "unclean" didn't mean much...the same thing would have been true if they had sexual intimacy with their wives.  Same was true for women who were having their period.     What wet dreams usually means is that we're not masturbating any more, so God's way of handling our sexual overload has been put back into control.  Isn't that great!?  

  • TJCamroTJCamro February 2008

    Travis, some of the men that I've worked with in this course have been so disturbed by the content of their dreams that, before retiring for the night, they prayed for purity in their dreams.  Some of the stuff that we dream about is a result of past sins - we have allowed those strongholds to be built in our minds, and it takes a while for them to go away.  But it's beyond our control, and we've been forgiven for what we saw or intentionally thought before - back when we were allowing sexual immorality to control our thoughts.  Forgiven!  And God is breaking down those strongholds!  Powerful stuff!   Here is something that another mentor wrote about this subject... Hey, I wouldn't get too overly disturbed or bothered by those dreams. Yes, we need to be cautious and you need to step back and reassess some things since it's possible that this happened due to letting the door sneak open in your heart but overall this is just a bump in the road. The devil would like to tell you that your car has driven off the road and over a cliff, but in truth you just went over a pothole so keep on truckin', man!    In time you will find that as you drink of the Word and the Lord that those things which once filled our minds will drift away. The Bible says that `for lack of fuel the fire goes out' and images or thoughts that are fresh still in your mind will be replaced by Christ through the work of the Holy Spirit as time goes on, and these types of things will drift away as you are filled with `all the fullness of God' as spoken of in Ephesians 1.    In addition, I am rejoicing to see the response of your wife. Wow, she is a real blessing and a tremendous help to you... and you better be sure to thank her up and praise her for her supportive response and not for blasting you or accusing you of who knows what. (Unfaithfulness, lust, deception, untrustworthiness, etc) Stay close to her spiritually and also physically, for it is possible that the frequency regarding the times of intimacy between you and her are not where it should be. It's not necessarily either one's fault, but just an indicator that possibly this area has slipped and extra vigilance and some `repair of the breach' is now in order.  Travis, God has made a natural outlet for our bodies to eliminate that build-up.  Wet dreams!   Isn't that good to know?!    

  • pryzefighterpryzefighter February 2008

    Meph i actually have seen the dead raised and the sick healed and in the hospital in my city a church (full of alot of my friends) actually has been allowed to have a healing room and many miracles have gone on there, people have been healed of AIDS and all sorts of stuff. Also my pastor has seen the dead raised as well. Im pretty sure your not exempt from this as well try it God will do it for you too.im looking at the principle of the scriptures i believe your examining everything word for word down to the letter, im pretty sure every thing is done with the proper exegisis and by the Spiritin response to your question i believe i was clear about what i said. so to saves us both (cause i love you more than an arguement) Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. (2 Timothy 2:23 ESV)i coud say more and im pretty sure so could you but if we dont leave it alone this could go the wrong wayi love and respect you  your brother in Christ

  • mephiboshethmephibosheth February 2008

    Pryze, you're certainly not obligated to argue this with me, but I do hope you consider seriously that you do not answer my challenges.  I also do not love argument for its own sake, but I do love the truth.  Although it was not entirely clear to me what you meant in the 2nd paragraph, you assert that you are using correct exegesis, yet you do not answer the specific Scriptural difficulties with that exegesis (which seems more like eisegesis to me).Case is point: you perform eisegesis (reading your intent into the text, rather than pulling the authors intent out of the text) here in citing II Timothy 2:23.  You have said that we are both brothers in Christ and indicated that our argument is not over vital matters; however, if you look at the context of II Timothy 2, you will see that Paul is warning Timothy to not waste energy on false teachers - teachers who are teaching lies which corrupt the Gospel.  Just two verses later, Paul explains that these teachers have not even received that knowledge of truth which we were discussing earlier and that they were yet in need of basic repentance.  This verse is completely out of context for the purposes of our discussion.  It doesn't mean "don't argue doctrine" - as you are attempting to apply it here.Again, we need not discuss this further here, but please take this as further evidence that you are not sufficiently careful with the Scriptures.  Habitually, you are not "correctly handling the word of truth" (again, II Timothy 2, verse 15 this time).You surely do not answer to me, so I'll not pursue this further if you do not want to.  I'll just exhort you to spend more time exploring the context and depth of the Scriptures.  Never read just one verse!It is good that we can challenge each other and that our differences compel us deeper into God's Word.

  • jy6400jy6400 February 2008

    Can we just simply agree that nocturnal emissions are not sinful.   Sexual dreams are sinful.Demonic forces can reach us even in our dreams.( Of which I have first hand experience that this is definently possible.)That we must persevere in prayer that our dreams may be clean.And that if we draw close enough to the Lord through prayer, meditation, and study that we will eventually stop having sinful dreams.Becoming holy and living a Christ-like life is a process and not an over-night victory.  Let us run the race with patience and joy.  It is a race that will last us our entire earthly lives.  So simply give encouragement to one another, and from personal experience give them advice on how to obtain victory in their current struggles. God bless,Dave

  • mephiboshethmephibosheth February 2008

    Just to clarify, Dave, I'd say that sin requires some volition on the part of the sinner.  I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm generally not in control of what I dream.  In fact... I've never been in control of the content of my dreams.  I can influence that content by what I put into my mind during waking hours, and that is the point at which I can commit the sin.  However, I can not actually conjure a dream; the dream itself is typically an involuntary response of the flesh.So I'd disagree in saying that sexually explicit dreams are sinful - though they may reflect the sinful waking activities of an undisciplined mind.As to whether demons can give you dreams... dunno.  I'd be curious for a Biblical citation, but I'm willing to bow to your experience on that one.  Indeed, if demons could in fact force you to dream something, and if the dream itself constituted a sin... then a demon could force you to sin.  SInce I don't imagine you want to argue that demons can force a believer to sin, you probably would have to go with either one or the other: either the dream itself is not sinful, or demons cannot force you to dream something.

  • sexual dreams aren't sin, it's what you do with the memory afterward that can be sin. however it appears that dave has piulled the happy core nuggets of this thread and put them all in one place. yay dave!and GC, i was asleep, the fish was dead and happened to be an oversized tuna. no clue about the significance. i was in guatamala, on a missions trip. miles upon miles from the coast. meh, some wets are fun others aren't.

  • netomejianetomejia February 2008

    TJ that e-mail was very constructive. Thanks for sharing.Pollux, I had forgotten about those non-sexual wet dreams! That's a bit of conversation too. I have had dreams involving running to catch the bus, or anxiety because of watching someone being kidnapped. GC, you have this style that I like... yes, usually wet dreams are awesome. Now I appreciate them not for the erotic fulfillment, but for other reasons. When I started taking the www.settingcaptivesfree.com course I begged God: "You know I'm in the fight of a lifetime, please, oh please let me recover the normal rythm of my body, for I haven't had a wet dream in YEARS". About two days later I woke up with a big stain that made me laugh. It was something like "God, you are supporting this! You're on my side! Thanks!". Yes they are enjoyable for the physical sensation, for the confirmation of one's own sexual nature aligning with God's purpose and because they give a relaxing sensation (instead of the guilt and tiredness that come with masturbation). But the stains will always be a downside.Soldier, your comments on the nuggets and tuna made me smile. I live in Guatemala (it would be cool to see you around next time and visit our ministry to the sexually broken in Latin America). Our tuna isn't impressive enough to dream about.Now, other comments in separate posts....

  • netomejianetomejia February 2008

     NOw, I agree that it's very dangerous to link sexual addiction/sin with demonic oppression. You'll see, I have had experiences when the temptation and the dreams had an obvious demonic source, but those were 3% of all the cases. (Maybe we can talk about it later). Let's say the remaining 97% of the temptation was within me. Sexual sin is ABOUT ME, MY DECISIONS, MY RESPONSIBILITY, MY OWN EYES AND MY ACTIONS. I'm responsible for what I do, the images I see and the conversations I have. I can't blame demons for my own sin. This is not a controversy topic for me, but a very important principle of freedom. When I assumed the responsibility for my actions, things started changing. But every person is tempted when he is drawn away, enticed and baited by his own evil desire (lust, passions). Then the evil desire, when it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is fully matured, brings forth death. James 1:14-15 AMP

  • jy6400jy6400 February 2008

    Well guys here is my experience.  As I have started growing closer to the Lord, and I still have a long way to go, but I have found myself having more and more control over my dreams.  I have even been able to start making cognitive and rational decisions in some of my dreams as to whether to dream about sinful things or not.  Also the more time I spend in prayer, study, and meditation I have found that my dreams are becoming much, much cleaner.  Before I would have terribly explicit dreams, and now any risky dreams that I have are maybe kissing a girl at worst.  Now whether sexual dreams are sinful or not I will concede that I do not know, but I will say with absolute certainty that they are not a good thing.  Having an explicit sexual dream will haunt you all mourning and put you in a terrible situation to battle against the devils temptations for that day.  So I view them as a way of weakening you before the day even starts, which is not a good thing.  I think we can all agree that every effort should be made to try and draw closer to the Lord and pray for our dreams to be made clean. :)God bless,Dave

  • Miracle+ManMiracle Man February 2008

    Well first, Meph, i don't think you have a leg to stand on telling someone they're emasculating the gospel, when you use scriptures that don't apply to  Christians. I don't see how new and tender hearts indwelt by the Spirit of God, with the law of God written upon them can be filled with wickedness and deciet, or conciet, doesn't really matter. The gospel hinges on the condition of heart. That scripture is not universal, esp. to the saved.As for the topic of this thread: do any of you know that the proper nightly response of the male body is to be sexually alert while the rest of us is dormant? That's the natural God given reality, maybe it doesn't happen in old men, but for some men, in their non sexually driven lives its the only way the tissue of the penis recieves oxegyn from the blood and remains alive. With those thoughts in mind, there is really no reason to assume in any case that a wet dream is in anyway demonic attack or spiritual problems, its just simple physics and logical reasoning. An errect penis, by God's design protecting the living tissue of its member, rubbing up against the covers, preventing blue balls and all other sorts of things, spurts, big deal. It is a beautiful normal and wonderfully God designed response and millions of male bodies do it every night while they sleep, some errupt some don't. The idea that they can be prone to demonic influence or have spiritual issues is nothing new or out of the ordinary, but I would, by the simple habit of being human, knowing we act on the briefest of person self containment, lean towards the idea it happens to people on average, and fluctuates, but the majority of cases are just the body obeying the necessary practice of being sexually capable. I think the reality that most of the people in this discussion at no fault of their own seem very quick to write things off in the simplest straighforward non harmongenized sense, would indicate that it is not as simple as we suspect, black and white. On other notes, I think I needs to say, it is not my knowledge that God has to send dreams for man to dream. It is not my knowledge that God expects us to remain children forever, and as such I do not see how we need to have dreams sent right from him, in order to have dreams in honour of him. Is not all our effort meaningless to praise him if he is indeed the only motivator and not in some cases merely our muse or Inspiration? There is also very little thought given here to the possible reality of the subconscious. Just two more things to go.I have a serious problem with someone saying that God does not want us to live with sexual thoughts in our heads until we are married. I'm sorry but only an idiot, yes its an intense word but its the truth, thinks that sexual things from God were designed and intended to be contained only in marriage. If a man is attracted to a woman non sexually, but wants her to be his wife, then good luck she will only end up being your friend buddy. A man who cannot be physical or consider a woman sexually even in simple admiration, not in just as an arousel is not going to make a good husband, or a good father. The notion is absurd. We do not grow vaginas or penises only after we get engaged or are wed. [need to end this here before I go to long]

  • Miracle+ManMiracle Man February 2008

    we do not hit puberty when we slide a ring on our fingers and slip into bed. These things begin long before that, and the consideration should be there when they begin, so that we are not sexual children anymore than we are spiritual babies. We worship sex and I am sorry to say I can see it here too, we put so much reverence on it that we are afraid to consider it express it, we clam it up in a box because it is dangerous. We are unable to conform to the cosmic joke CS Lewis talks about, that these bodies are intended to convey undying pledges, and spiritual loves, in a body that degrades, collapses, shits sweats salivates, pisses, ejaculates, shets, loses hair. Sexuality is not limited to coitus, and yet, our matured sexuality, that which knows its manliness and fiminiinity, and is able to uphold those things, knows its relationship with God in all aspects, and has harnessed it, even unto its sex, not just resisting it, but practiced it in godly forums and arenas, mastered it as a person before God, then it serves their purpose before the lord. How many of you think your sex lives are going to be these unbridaled pleasure excursion so pleasing to the lord in obedience, when now you struggle to not be afraid of the shame of its normal heavenly designed functions. We struggle to discover something in fear that begins long before marriage so that it can actually be a blessing for it. Its the same thing with death, a wise man thinks on it much, a wise man also has a grasp on the realities of knowing, 'hey I need to be in a manner, without lusting, knowing or considering, who I would like to bone.' because not doing that is not a duty to our wives. We like to be all noble and all that, but we are not mature enough to admire or consider without lust, and decide does this person turn me on, and then think we are being responsible to our future spouses by thinking well sex will be enjoyable and fullfilling because we waited and all that bull, you can't even honour God's creation enough to make sure his purpose does haalf the work od making you want to ravish her. There is such a thing as a stuffy Christian who is boring at sex no matter how much they want to please God.The last thing is to the notion that mistakes allow the enemy to infiltrate us and take adavntage, now I am no expert, but I do believe that this is a false notion. It is founded and I would admit that I am probably wrong in many situations, esp in the line of hereditary curses. But the idea that it exposes us is a highly old testament theory. this is the new testament, and we are filled with Christ, he does not removes his spirit for disobedience of his faithful, show me a person not protected by God in his erra of grace, and I will show you someone who does not believe what they claim. I admit that the enemy harrasses people and torments them and fills them with fear, but he canot harm them. His ways are not contingent on us, all we need is his gracious favour, which is not contingent on our awareness or ability to claim or stand but on his ability to rule the universe. I would also like to mention that it is the constant barage of Godly men so very disciplined to have suffered such torments of the enemy unknown to us, so severe, because it is the will of God and they are upstanding, not because they have sinned. We surely are under his bright shadow, not under the destruction of our week flesh. I am being a little forceful but I had a much better written response done when my server crashed so I stopped the politeness and I am a little angry. 

  • laxlax February 2008

    So Miracle Man, in other words you're saying wet dreams are cool?

  • mephiboshethmephibosheth February 2008

    lax, you rogue =)So, onto  miracle man...First, the meat of your post is probably summed up thusly: you guys here are all so uptight!  Don't you know that God made your bodies and said they are good???  Geez...  get a grip!  Relax!  Enjoy your sexuality!Your admitted anger degraded pretty rapidly into condescension.You know that most or all of the people here have some level of disfunction in their sexual life.  They are here in order to get the clarity and perspective they need to make a radical change in the way they use their mind regarding this (large) aspect of their life.An alcoholic is well aware that God made the grape and the barley and called them good.  He doesn't need a sermon about how Jesus drank wine.  He knows all that.  What he needs is to step back and away from the thing that has grown up in his life way out of proportion.  Maybe someday he'll be able to drink in moderation, enjoying the good food and drink God created, but for the moment, he needs to draw away from them.That is the case with some people here.  What they (we) need is grace, not frustration with our immaturity.  If they are bothered in their conscience by the way their body is functioning, they don't need you to start foaming at the mouth in impatience.  I'm sure I don't need to refer you to the Pauline teachings regarding how to love the weaker brother.Also, while you were slaying the mighty straw man of our backwoods sexual understanding, you were insulting our (my?) intelligence.  You preach these things as if they were not obvious.So back to the beginning of your post, you were objecting to my application of Jeremiah 17:9 ("the heart is deceitful above all things, who can understand it?").  You say this cannot possibly apply to a believer.  The argument here could get pretty involved so I'll instead appeal to your experience.  Do you not still lie to yourself?  Do you not still need to be regularly reminded of the truths of God to combat the habits of the old man?  Is it not refreshing when you are able to, once again, lay aside some untruth that you have foisted on yourself and replace it with a renewed realization of the miracle of the new creation?  Your heart, the old heart, is lying to you daily, even if you are grown enough into christ to pay it heed only rarely.  It is deceitful, and it will continue to lie to you as you work to retrain your thoughts to rely not on the advice of the flesh, but on the eternal Word of God.  If it were not so, Paul would not have to advise that we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.  Do you imagine we are tempted only by demons?  Or are we not dragged away and enticed by our own evil desires?  Does James not go on to say that these desires battle within us - in our hearts?The difference between a believer and an unbeliever in this regard, is that the believer has the capacity to know the truth - to see the lie when it is revealed by the light of Truth that is placed inside him.  His heart still lies, but he is now free to believe the truth instead, whereas before he was captive to the lying heart.And, just to clarify what I meant by "emasculating the gospel": anything which detracts from the sufficiency of Christ's work on the cross and replaces it with human effort, emasculates the gospel.  The interpretation of Hebrews 10 that was being put forward denied the sufficiency of Christ's blood to deal with "willful sin" and implied, in context, that some activity of man would be required to regain God's grace.  I think you can agree this would be, dare I say, heretical teaching.  I cannot be sure that pryze meant it the way it seemed to read since he didn't respond on that point when challenged.You are largely right in your last point about the spiritual protection afforded to the believer.  You will want to go look up what the Bible has to say about generational curses, but I'll sum up: the son is emphatically not punished for the sins of the father.  You are absolutely right in emphasizing that His favor is not contingent on us but on His faithfulness - what a joy to consider!

  • Miracle+ManMiracle Man February 2008

    Well Meph, you're right, my anger did come through, and not because I don't understand, I very much did come from such a place, and not because I don't know why people are here, I am a veteran of the 3X church forums since the great grand daddy of this one [this one is pretty shsbby compared], but mostly because I am tired of these conclusions of the posters here. And While I should be gentler I am tired of them taking their problems in blanket. If we use your example, an alcoholic recovering avoids drink and the bottle etc. This is fine, he might even go on a rant about how terrible a thing it is and how it should be banned because it destroys things so severely. Not only is this a lie, since the responsible enjoy it and should, but nothing about the liquid is in fact false. It doesn't make a mockery of the great water God made, or even his divine self which is such a wonderful beverage. But at some point the metaphore comes apart, the constant craving for alcohol is not normal, and the bottle can be distanced from the body.Sexual incentive on the other hand cannot. And I am struggling to cope with the idea that many of the posters here, because of addiction or terrible experiences have written off every sexual response, the urge to masturbate, the difference between fantasy and lust, the difference between being horny and aroused, or the difference between actually admiring a girl and well, adultery. I fully understand that these things must be controlled and resisted for them, they cannot masturbate at present because it is so linked with the sexual trial. They cannot weed readily their thoughts, just the same as an alcoholic cannot be around smokers, because it reminds them of bars, and then to the drink. But what I have a problem with is that now, masturbation and its urges are the same thing, fantasy is the same thing, looking at a girl, having sexual thoughts are urges is the same thing as their problem. And yes again that is true, the good things are not as whole because they have been press ganged into lide behaviours. But a definative train of thought exists that I can understand is from the trauma, but is one that will lead to other sexual problems. Its just plain naivity, esp. the part that I chose to focus on, even if I was very over forceful. From my experience in this case from others, the stop gaps are rich pools to never being free again. They are akin to the woman who is raped, and of course her mind is hurt very seriously and she cannot lift herself above it. But she convinces herself and then is helped by others like her who feed the false concusions, ranging from it was her fault to men are all evil, constantly wanting to rape you. Victims do this in order to survive.As arape victim does it they will notbe able to relateto the opposite sex, and the sex victims here are unable to react to sexuality. The thing is that the rape victim is content never to have healthy relationship with the evil that violated her, and if she does it wreaks havok within it. The posters here not only wish to have normal lives and marriages someday, but they think that their safety measures are true anf godly and healthy, what God expects of them. They show however classic signs of not recovering, and are quite willing to unleash their sexual disfunction, without any wish to actualize a healing method. They can't cope with their own bodies in their present state, and yet think they will be able to cope with wives and attend well and servicably to their sexual needs, with no direction set on becoming whole, but remaining in the victimized mode of thinking, forgetting all the while that a man treats his wife as he treats his body. They view sex in marriage as though it will be their cure, and it will simply be the place where their sickness will come out, heaped on their wives that they neglect in some way. They need a thinking pattern that views marriage as a thing they need to activate so they can sew into not reap from, marriages open problems not cure them. I will get back to you on the other thing about the heart later, in the mean time read romans 6,7,8 

  • mephiboshethmephibosheth February 2008

    I hear you, MM.  And, of course, every metaphor breaks down when you push it very far.  The thing is, you can't very well expect people in the midst of the struggle to jump right to the conclusion.  You obviously know that, but you may just need to find a way to refresh your patience.You're worrying about things that are potential problems down the road while many people are just trying to survive their current battle.  I agree, we should put forward the truth at every opportunity; we should promote accurate perspectives on these things.  However, most people need to digest things in bite sized chunks.  It can be frustrating to wait as people chew.So we are not satisfied when your hypothetical rape victim adopts an unhealthy and untrue attitude towards men, but we need to be careful about how we encourage her towards healing and maturity.Anyhow, I get your frustration, and I've shared it at times.  I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know.And I'm very well aquainted with the book of Romans.  If you're preparing to debate the matter of the exact nature of the "old man" and the "new creation" and the "body of death" etc., that's big and hairy.  It's complex enough that people on differing sides of some of these issues look to the same passages for "conclusive" evidence of their differing interpretations.  I'd quickly start by pointing out that Paul talks extensively about the struggle with sin that wars inside the believer.  Whence this struggle?  If we agree that the indwelling Spirit of God is not creating the contention against the new life, what causes the war?  Thence, Paul addresses the need to strive earnestly in living according to the Spirit.  Why strive if there is no powerful motivation to walk in opposition to the Spirit?  From where does this opposition to the Spirit spring if not the heart of man?  Again, in your own life, do you not need to continually return to God in prayer and in His Word to do battle and subdue the "natural" inclinations of your own heart?  Or are we just getting snagged on a careless disagreement over the exact definition of heart?....  I actually don't think we disagree about much.

  • jewbaccajewbacca February 2008

    well i'll just give mine and the religious jewish angle on this subjectpersonally i've had nocturnal emissions before i knew about sex or porn or just random erections. so to link nocturnal emissions to sexual fantasy and thinking about sex with a woman or porn is completely unbased.my nocturnal emissions  got me wondering about why is my underware sticky in the morning and only a few months later the elementry school got some guy to give the 5th graders a sex ed class(not really sex ed but more about the reproduction process in animals and humans) during my mononucleosis sickness i was briefly hospitalized and my doctor in the hospital was the same guy who taught us that sex ed class. anyways after that class i knew exactly why and what was sticky in my undies.i think that having a wet dream is caused by the body's need to release sperm and not the other way around. if you saw porn in the age of 8 for instance before the nocturnal emissions start then you'll probably have wet dreams when those emissions start, not always though. just as one can become horny at a given moment without a woman present or any arrousal that might cause it.one explanation could be that your subconscious mind processed something that you saw earlier that made you arroused or just random horniness...it's not for nothing that people say that a penis has a mind of it's own. so basicly what i'm saying is there's nothing wrong with nocturnal emissions and it's just the body's way of releasing excess sperm. this shouldn't even be a problem if you're having sex regularly,or MB since there is no excess in that case.in fact i started masturbating as a kid just to avoid nocturnal emissions...no secret laundries or anything. we didn't even have a wahsing machine back then and mom washed everyone's clothes by hand.kind of embarrassing for my mom to see my undies with dry semen stains on them.now the religious jewish approach says that nocturnal emissions are ok even when a wet dream is involved because a wet dream is not something that is of will.you don't ask for a certain type of dream it's just happens on its own.so though waste of sperm is forbidden in judaism(Onan), there are exceptions as stated in Deutoronomy 23:10 as men who went to war and cannot have sex with their wives and are not allowed to MB because this is willfull waste of sperm so they have nocturnal emissions and it's not their fault.for kids it was at the old days was a sign to get married because now they can fulfill god's command to breed and multiply, same thing with the girl's period. it's modern society that made marriage at a young age illegal and using kids as a slave labor workforce. kids are much better educated at these ages because their mind is like a spongebob. later it was permitted to MB and waste sperm for medical uses.getting sperm count and seeing if the man is furtile in case him and the wife are trying to get pregnant to no avail. stuff like that.  

  • carecare February 2008

    Hi mephibosheth,  Thankyou for what you say for those of us who are rape victims.  I call myself a rape survivor...I have survived this happening to me...and I am starting to come out of my shell and help others who have had this done to them.  I do not think that all men are creeps.  I have learned alot from my friends here and they have shown me alot of love.  I am however exceedingly affraid of being in a "relationship" with one...just b/c of how my life has been...and what the "relationships" I have been in have been like.  This is not to say that I never want to be in a "relationship" with a man...b/c someday I would like to be in a loving relationship with a man...I just have to learn...understand...and know what that is...and I am working on this.  I like what you say here about "we need to be careful about how we encourage her towards healing and maturity"...for me I think that this is a major thing...and makes all the difference...as to how it is for us.  Being a victim of rape...is different for everyone...the only thing that we have in common...is the common thread that we share...and this is that we were raped...and in the end it is what binds us together and gives us strength....the strength that we need to have to carry on...and the strength to know and understand that what we have is the ability to be there to reach out and help others who are like ourselves.  I am learning this...and I am learning that I have worth and that my words have worth and that I am not yesterday's trash...I am learning that I can be here for others who are like me...and tell them they and their words have worth too.Grace and Peace,~care 

  • jewbaccajewbacca February 2008

    Dear careit really pains me to hear about your unfortunate experience.rapists are the scum of the earth, they are killers. only they don't kill you physically but emotionly. they are worse than yesterday's trash that they lead you to think you are(which you're obviously not).they deserve to be rotting in prison being someone's boytoy so they know exactly how it feels(eye for an eye).I'd give you a warm hug but i'm half the world away so just know that you have my full support.I'm glad you're making progress in your process of healing from this terrible event and you are on the right track.I'm certain that someday you'll find a guy who'll be compasionate, understanding, caring and loving as you need him to be that will never take advantage of you and be sensetive to your needs and would make you feel warm and safe with him.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Categories